Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

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  • underthecountertenor
    Full Member
    • Apr 2011
    • 1584

    Originally posted by french frank View Post

    [Is the playlist right? Did Julian Bream play the 2nd movement twice, both times with the CBSO and Rattle? And why is Andrei Yakovlevich Eshpai cited as Андрей Яковлевич Эшпай ? Automation, presumably]
    I think this may reflect the fact that they are now playing a bit of the 'lead' piece a second time, just in case anyone could possibly have forgotten how it went in the intervening 20 minutes or so.

    Comment

    • underthecountertenor
      Full Member
      • Apr 2011
      • 1584

      Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
      I didn't hang about to listen to the "choice" which would appear to have been the Miles Davis version - a version that RC, I know, is particularly fond of as he has played it a number of times on his programmes. Makes you wonder if that was going to be the "choice" all along and serendipitously a listener suggested it.

      I would have thought that if you liked guitar concertos it would have been a perfect opportunity to play the Arnold Guitar Concerto. Maybe someone suggested it. Who knows? Who cares?
      Certainly further ballast to the (furiously denied) suggestion that they pick something obvious in advance, knowing that at least one person is likely to propose it. RC must have been cock-a-hoop.

      Comment

      • Richard Tarleton

        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
        ... a pedant wonders whether it shd be "vinteuil's Reader's Digest's man's point" ...



        apostrophe's - don'tcha love 'em?!!

        .


        All the same - Reader's Digest man. Hatchet man. Piano man - I maintain no apostrophe is an acceptable alternative in the circs.

        There's no point in asking what these Miles Davis fans see in it I suppose? I'm mildly curious, but only mildly.

        Comment

        • vinteuil
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 12815

          Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post


          All the same - Reader's Digest man. Hatchet man. Piano man - I maintain no apostrophe is an acceptable alternative in the circs.
          .
          ... o of course it is. I just liked the possibility you had created of such a concatenation, such a pile-up, of apostrophes.

          Comment

          • Eine Alpensinfonie
            Host
            • Nov 2010
            • 20570

            Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
            And RC forestalled the inevitable "rest of the concerto" replies by insisting the listener choose something else.
            At least they're more aware now.

            Comment

            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37678

              Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post

              There's no point in asking what these Miles Davis fans see in it I suppose? I'm mildly curious, but only mildly.
              Just for the curious who may wish to know what it sounds like:

              Concierto de Aranjuez (complete alternate take)Specially created edit of two incomplete alternate takes of Concierto De Aranjuez, recorded at the Sketches of...

              Comment

              • french frank
                Administrator/Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 30283

                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                Just for the curious who may wish to know what it sounds like:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr-hjwoAu6I
                Thanks, S_A. I listened to the first 7 minutes and was the first to click on 'I dislike this' . It seems so completely at odds with the original, I wonder why they took that piece to rearrange. The original version seems to exude the shimmering, almost oppressive, heat of inland Spain which is enhanced by the sound of the guitar in particular and the hint of flamenco. The MD version is what it is, take it or leave it. Too lazy and relaxed, but if that's the kind of thing one likes … &c.
                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                Comment

                • LMcD
                  Full Member
                  • Sep 2017
                  • 8460

                  Anybody who doesn't like the Miles Davis version might like to try The Shadows' version....
                  Last edited by LMcD; 17-11-17, 21:12.

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30283

                    Originally posted by LMcD View Post
                    Anybody who doesn't like the Miles Davis version might like to try The Shadows' version....
                    Please, no. Not Hank Marvin
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • Quarky
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 2658

                      Interesting discussion.

                      Why was Miles Davis played? Clearly by popular demand.

                      Why sandwiched between Shosta. Prelude & fugue and Vivaldi Violin Concerto? Bearing in mind that Radio 3 is aimed at the general public, not only a narrow band of knowledgeable Classical enthusiasts, it might:
                      persuade some listeners to adjust listening habits developed over the years, and
                      knock some of the perceived stuffiness out of the Classical music agenda.

                      Comment

                      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                        Gone fishin'
                        • Sep 2011
                        • 30163

                        Originally posted by Vespare View Post
                        it might
                        It won't.

                        The idea that "the general public" will switch from their usual station of choice, happen to overhear a bit of the Miles Davies as they retune their radios (an old-fashioned set, without the pre-tuned stations) and stay listening to hear the Vivaldi snippet, and then continue with R3 for some of its other fare, is a nice fantasy - but it's no more (or, if you prefer, likely than a "knowledgeable Classical specialist", growing increasingly dissatisfied with Essential Classics is going to retune his/her radio, get their attention caught by a piece of Szymanowski that Clara Amfo has happened to broadcast, and stay with R1 for the rest of the day, having been persuaded to adjust listening habits developed over the years.
                        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                        Comment

                        • Sir Velo
                          Full Member
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 3227

                          Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post

                          There's no point in asking what these Miles Davis fans see in it I suppose? I'm mildly curious, but only mildly.
                          Ah, maybe you need to stop thinking in terms of the original and see it for what it is. It doesn't replace the Rodrigo clearly but provides an equally valid, alternative musical experience.

                          P.S. Glad to see Stan agrees with me!
                          Last edited by Sir Velo; 18-11-17, 07:01. Reason: Postscript

                          Comment

                          • Sir Velo
                            Full Member
                            • Oct 2012
                            • 3227

                            Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                            ... a pedant wonders whether it shd be "vinteuil's Reader's Digest's man's point" ...
                            Uh?... "White Van's man"? "Essex's man"?

                            Not sure whether the pedant's right on this occasion!

                            Comment

                            • Richard Tarleton

                              Originally posted by Sir Velo View Post
                              Not sure whether the pedant's right on this occasion!
                              As Monsieur V acknowledges, he was merely amused by the potential concatenation of apostrophes

                              Comment

                              • cloughie
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 22119

                                Originally posted by Vespare View Post
                                Interesting discussion.

                                Why was Miles Davis played? Clearly by popular demand.

                                Why sandwiched between Shosta. Prelude & fugue and Vivaldi Violin Concerto? Bearing in mind that Radio 3 is aimed at the general public, not only a narrow band of knowledgeable Classical enthusiasts, it might:
                                persuade some listeners to adjust listening habits developed over the years, and
                                knock some of the perceived stuffiness out of the Classical music agenda.
                                There's little stuffiness in the Classical agenda, and there's no problem with the occasional 'out of the box' track as indeed Rob used to put into CD Masters which was the excellent, brimming with full works, and informative intros from Rob and Jonathan Swain. What we have now is a Classic FM clone hijacking three hours of prime morning listening which should be playing full works. Why does the psyche of R3 control not twig copying to compete is not constructive and whilst they are trying to attract new listeners they are deserting a large cohort of our ageing population. And Vespare whilst you are having a go at Classical stuffiness, I don't notice the mainstream R2 programmes veering from their predictable fayre and perhaps playing the odd classical piece and saying that's really nice try more on Radio 3. Why doesn't Ken Bruce have a Classical Coffee Break around 10.50 and then perhaps ask Lynne Bowles for her views on the piece played. Come to think of it mainstream R2 does not play much Miles Davis or music at the Jazz end of the Easy Listening (when did you last hear Stacey Kent or Diana Krall on R2?)

                                Comment

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