Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[Pim Derks]

reminds me of the shift from CD Masters to Essential Classics

"CD Masters" was replaced by "Classical Collection" in 2007.

[Rex Bartlett]

Maybe Ms Klein's occasional references to 'gigs' gives us a clue as to what demographic they have in mind.

[Nick Armstrong]

Back to the CD collection for me!

Last night's TTN here - some excellent choral performances by the Huelgas, La Mer from the BBCSSO/Volkov, and that wonderful Enigma Variations from the BBCSO/Oramo (which seems to surface regularly on TTN)... Hurrah for the R3 App, which makes avoiding daytime radio a doddle, mercifully

[french frank]

"CD Masters" was replaced by "Classical Collection" in 2007.

Yes, Classical Collection was down one gear in 2007 (when Breakfast began), and 2011 was a further shift down (when Breakfast went down as well with Your Call and such lovely things) and Essential Classics took over.

Classical Collection was for a more general audience than CD Masters - last playlist here. Eight pieces in 2 hours = 12 pieces in three hours, half what today's Essential Classics had.

Essential Classics had as its commissioning brief to 'hold on to as many Breakfast listeners as possible' and was the first morning programme to last for 3 hours. Afternoons became similarly undifferentiated with one single programme between the lunchtime recital and In Tune. Cheap radio. Can't entirely blame R3 for that.

[Rex Bartlett]

Not entirely sure what Rex's comments on last week's Composer of the Week are doing here (which particular comments did you find "incomprehensible", by the way; I'll be happy to try to explain them to you).

Yes, sorry, I realised that didn't make a lot of sense when I read it back. My point, in the heat of the moment (ffs), was to point out the polar shift between something I find difficult not to say impossible to grasp, and patronising pap delivered to me as if I was still in infant school. Much as I'd love for someone to help me understand and appreciate Goehr (and his music), I'm afraid I'm far too long in the tooth, with groupings and patterns of neural synapses firmly set in simple Rachmaninov mode to even worry and fret why such strange lurches in pitch and tonality just sound like a lot of ugly noise to me. But thanks for the offer.

[Sir Velo]

Hurrah for the R3 App, which makes avoiding daytime radio a doddle, mercifully

Provided Shosty old son, you have a reliable internet connection!

Otherwise, on car journeys in the provinces for example, you're stuck with the real time output.

[underthecountertenor]

Maybe Ms Klein's occasional references to 'gigs' gives us a clue as to what demographic they have in mind.

I know a lot of professional classical musicians, with a wide age-range. Pretty much all of them refer to classical concerts as 'gigs'. Mind you, it's also the case that many of them listen to the 'playlist programmes' on Radio 3, with few if any of the qualms frequently expressed on these boards. (Oliver Knussen - not, sadly, a friend of mine - was clearly listening to Breakfast this morning). Perhaps this is the demographic to which you are referring.

[Pulcinella]

I know a lot of professional classical musicians, with a wide age-range. Pretty much all of them refer to classical concerts as 'gigs'. Mind you, it's also the case that many of them listen to the 'playlist programmes' on Radio 3, with few if any of the qualms frequently expressed on these boards. (Oliver Knussen - not, sadly, a friend of mine - was clearly listening to Breakfast this morning). Perhaps this is the demographic to which you are referring.

I wonder what geographic (or other) demographic they are in: close to that of W1A I shouldn't wonder!
The classical world exists for many of us outside gigland, I'm pleased to say.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder what geographic (or other) demographic they are in: close to that of W1A I shouldn't wonder!
The classical world exists for many of us outside gigland, I'm pleased to say.

A smidgin harsh, perhaps, Pulcie? Granted, I'm not a "professional", but I have often referred to concerts which I have attended, and/or in which have taken part, as "gigs" - most recently last Friday on the Hear & Now Thread. The nearest I've ever got to W1A was E11 (October 1982 - September '85). And I'm greatly looking forward to the Osud/L'Enfant gig in LS1 next month

[Sir Velo]

I know a lot of professional classical musicians, with a wide age-range. Pretty much all of them refer to classical concerts as 'gigs'. Mind you, it's also the case that many of them listen to the 'playlist programmes' on Radio 3, with few if any of the qualms frequently expressed on these boards.

All of which tends to support Rex's view that this programme is put out for meejah types, and jobbing musos, and not for the informed classical music lover.

(Oliver Knussen - not, sadly, a friend of mine - was clearly listening to Breakfast this morning). Perhaps this is the demographic to which you are referring.

A rather cryptic comment UTCT! Leaving aside the tantalising implication as to whether you and Ollie are no longer on the best of terms, is it not plausible that if OK was listening today, and again, not quite sure on what basis you arrive at that deduction, is it not possible that he received a tip off from his agent; rather than his being a devotee of Ms Klein's, or of bleeding chunks of populist pap?

[Rex Bartlett]

I know a lot of professional classical musicians, with a wide age-range. Pretty much all of them refer to classical concerts as 'gigs'.

Oh depress me even more. Wiki: Gig is slang for a live musical performance. Originally coined in the 1920s by jazz musicians.

[Pulcinella]

A smidgin harsh, perhaps, Pulcie? Granted, I'm not a "professional", but I have often referred to concerts which I have attended, and/or in which have taken part, as "gigs" - most recently last Friday on the Hear & Now Thread. The nearest I've ever got to W1A was E11 (October 1982 - September '85). And I'm greatly looking forward to the Osud/L'Enfant gig in LS1 next month

Perhaps.

But I would never think of going to Osud/L'enfant as simply 'turning up at a couple of gigs'!
Though I can understand the parlance, especially for example for a jobbing musician taken on just for a couple of sessions.
Still sounds very W1Aish to me, just that little bit cliquey/knowing.
As another for example, I would do (indeed have done) some homework before going to LS1, but wouldn't necessarily think I needed to if I was just going to a gig.
But just ignore me: I'm rapidly becoming Old Grumpy; must be something in the Yorkshire water.

[LMcD]

Fact-based, taking 6 episodes from Rob Cowan and Sarah Walker (I think the Mondays over 6 weeks), the number of pieces daily ranged from 12-17, average 15-16; SW slightly fewer than RC in her two weeks.

Taking the 6 episodes so far from SK, the pieces ranged from 20-25, average 22-23 - that's about the same length as Breakfast, judging by PT's this morning. And the impression is that the choices, including: Gershwin x 3 (I got Rhythm, Rhapsody in Blue, Summertime), Dvořák (Prague Waltzes), Debussy (Children's Corner), Sullivan (Pineapple Poll), Bizet (Carmen Suite), Britten (Salley Gardens), Beethoven (Egmont Overture), Wagner (T&I Prelude), Schubert (Impromptu D 899 No 3), Flotow (Last Rose of Summer), Ireland (London Overture), Lambert (Rio Grande), plus probably a couple of others, each individually unobjectionable, collectively make for a programme at the light and/or familiar end of the repertoire.

Add to that a celebrity interview which, to be completely objective, I ought to listen to plus any other new gimmicks, and it all adds up to a programme that would, possibly, do credit to Classic FM. (I remember a critic in, possibly, the D. Telegraph, sighing over the tweeness of Brian Kay's 'Three for All' with its reference to 'settling down with a cup of tea)

But we must beware of being too critical lest we be publicly lambasted as self-elected snobs.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions!

[Nick Armstrong]

Provided Shosty old son, you have a reliable internet connection!

Otherwise, on car journeys in the provinces for example, you're stuck with the real time output.

Not necessarily! One of the good things about the app is the ability to download anything on the iPlayer to your phone / tablet, for 30 days. It demands a little forethought, admittedly - but with a couple of TTNs in your phone, you can listen anywhere without any sort of connection. En vélo, for instance (I was pedalling in the park earlier with Jazz Record Requests in the ears, most agreeably)

[french frank]

Perhaps this is the demographic to which you are referring.

If I had to comment on that, I'd say that the biggest mistake is in targeting a 'demographic' at all: the audience dictates the content. Deciding first what Radio 3 'is', what it's 'for' would seem to me more of a 'Radio 3' approach. But it goes right up against the BBC's mindset. Getting big, satisfied audiences is more important than serving minorities - of a certain kind, anyway. And my guess is that Essential Classics not only has a (relatively) big, fat audience - it has - but they are also satisfied customers, with the BBC's Audience Appreciation Index around 80. The minority who are dissatisfied get elbowed out.

Talking of gigs, albums, tracks and songs is the language of the casually familiar which soon or later spreads to the common speech. As usual, it's the popular taking over. Innit. Like. A natural law.