Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[french frank]

I didn't know about that.

She wrote an article in the Radio Times. Radio 3 presenter given the opportunity to write about the Proms and she chose the Radio 1 Ibiza Prom - as if that wasn't getting enough publicity in the press anyway. And for good measure she had a jibe at the 'self-elected snobs' and their 'finger-wagging'. No indication as to who they might have been or where they were wagging their fingers. And everyone knew that the Ibiza Prom was exactly the kind of concert that the Proms were originally set up to present - 'the widest range of music' (eh?) - and not a note of classical music within earshot.

Naked populism.

[cloughie]

She wrote an article in the Radio Times. Radio 3 presenter given the opportunity to write about the Proms and she chose the Radio 1 Ibiza Prom - as if that wasn't getting enough publicity in the press anyway. And for good measure she had a jibe at the 'self-elected snobs' and their 'finger-wagging'. No indication as to who they might have been or where they were wagging their fingers. And everyone knew that the Ibiza Prom was exactly the kind of concert that the Proms were originally set up to present - 'the widest range of music' (eh?) - and not a note of classical music within earshot.

Naked populism.

...and whilst I like something in many genres I have never seen the point of the Ibiza 'noise' 'urts my ears.

[Bryn]

The programme appears to be getting worse by the day. Surely only an inverted snob could make such compilations of classical titbits wrested from their intended context.

[Barbirollians]

She wrote an article in the Radio Times. Radio 3 presenter given the opportunity to write about the Proms and she chose the Radio 1 Ibiza Prom - as if that wasn't getting enough publicity in the press anyway. And for good measure she had a jibe at the 'self-elected snobs' and their 'finger-wagging'. No indication as to who they might have been or where they were wagging their fingers. And everyone knew that the Ibiza Prom was exactly the kind of concert that the Proms were originally set up to present - 'the widest range of music' (eh?) - and not a note of classical music within earshot.

Naked populism.

Which is also a gross misrepresentation of the intentions of the founders of the Proms it was to use popular music to draw listeners in to hear classical and modern music .

[Barbirollians]

There is something very " geography teacher at the school disco " about classical music presenters who have made their careers on the basis of their apparent knowledge and study of classical music to chooseIbiza Proms and crossover nonsense and the like .

[Richard Tarleton]

She's just played "I know that my Redeemer liveth" - the latest wheeze seems to be to get listeners to suggest what should come next. Not the next number in the Messaiah, presumably, that would be far too obvious. Presumably she's looking for a neat segue along the lines of a good disco playlist.

[ahinton]

She's just played "I know that my Redeemer liveth" - the latest wheeze seems to be to get listeners to suggest what should come next. Not the next number in the Messaiah, presumably, that would be far too obvious. Presumably she's looking for a neat segue along the lines of a good disco playlist.

I think a far better suggestion would be Nessun Dorma from Busoni's Turandot; at least that would keep the presenter out of mischief while fruitlessly searching for a recording of it...

[Dudelsack]

As a long time lurker I have finally joined up, so depressed am I by the new (!) sound of SK and the new audience involvement slot. I couldn't agree more with Richard T's suggestion for a follow up to the Handel. Yesterday, annoyed by SK's patronising clichés about what should best follow the last movement of Schubert 3, and, emboldened by her assurance that she would read all of our comments, I sent the following:

"Following the last movement of Schubert 3 I would recommend that your neophyte listen to the whole of the symphony. In that way s/he would learn of the glorious complexity of music, of how one movement of a symphony is contextualised by the whole, that music isn’t just the immediate and easy gratification of a nice happy tune but that it has, as Rossini observed about Wagner, its mauvais quarts d’heure as well as its shattering climaxes, that it embraces the dark night of the soul as well as its glorious sunrises. There are other places for bleeding chunks, and if that’s your bag then go occupy them, and no real harm done.

But this is just a game, isn’t it; just there for us listeners who want to show off our knowledge when the reality is that any meaningful suggestion depends on the listener whom you are meant to be advising, their character, enthusiasm, taste …

Anyway, here’s my suggestion: follow Schubert 3 with Die Winterreise and ponder on how the eighteen year old Schubert could grow into such a composer. Now there’s some work for any listener, neophytre or hardened old cynic like me."

Strange to relate there has been no response from the new Head Girl or her team of monitors.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Strange to relate there has been no response from the new Head Girl or her team of monitors.

They might be trying to work out who "NK" is ... ?

[french frank]

They might be trying to work out who "NK" is ... ?

Noozy K! (Hello, Dudelsack! )

[french frank]

But this is just a game, isn’t it; just there for us listeners who want to show off our knowledge when the reality is that any meaningful suggestion depends on the listener whom you are meant to be advising, their character, enthusiasm, taste …

More seriously, it's a point I would like to have a discussion about with the controller. It's a BBC tenet that 'audiences are at the heart of everything we do' and drawing them in to engage with the programmes they love and their welcoming presenters is what they all try to do.

In other words, there's no place for people who don't want to be drawn in and hobnob with presenters. It's like going into a shop and being fawned over by assistants rapidly displaying all the things the shop sells when you know exactly what you want and you just want is to buy it and take it away.

[Richard Tarleton]

As a long time lurker I have finally joined up, so depressed am I by the new (!) sound of NK and the new audience involvement slot. I couldn't agree more with Richard T's suggestion for a follow up to the Handel. Yesterday, annoyed by NK's patronising clichés about what should best follow the last movement of Schubert 3, and, emboldened by her assurance that she would read all of our comments, I sent the following:

"Following the last movement of Schubert 3 I would recommend that your neophyte listen to the whole of the symphony. In that way s/he would learn of the glorious complexity of music, of how one movement of a symphony is contextualised by the whole, that music isn’t just the immediate and easy gratification of a nice happy tune but that it has, as Rossini observed about Wagner, its mauvais quarts d’heure as well as its shattering climaxes, that it embraces the dark night of the soul as well as its glorious sunrises. There are other places for bleeding chunks, and if that’s your bag then go occupy them, and no real harm done.

But this is just a game, isn’t it; just there for us listeners who want to show off our knowledge when the reality is that any meaningful suggestion depends on the listener whom you are meant to be advising, their character, enthusiasm, taste …

Anyway, here’s my suggestion: follow Schubert 3 with Die Winterreise and ponder on how the eighteen year old Schubert could grow into such a composer. Now there’s some work for any listener, neophytre or hardened old cynic like me."

Strange to relate there has been no response from the new Head Girl or her team of monitors.

Greetings Dudelsack, agreed entirely. In the case of the Handel example earlier, the first response SK read out was a James Taylor number, both SK and the listener demonstrating how über cool they are. Job, VW - as you say, "just there for us listeners who want to show off our knowledge".

I'm sorry to have to say, the programme has taken a turn for the (considerably) worse. Coupled with the loss of Jolly and Swain on Sundays, these are sad times just as we thought things might be getting better.

[Stanfordian]

More seriously, it's a point I would like to have a discussion about with the controller. It's a BBC tenet that 'audiences are at the heart of everything we do' and drawing them in to engage with the programmes they love and their welcoming presenters is what they all try to do.

In other words, there's no place for people who don't want to be drawn in and hobnob with presenters. It's like going into a shop and being fawned over by assistants rapidly displaying all the things the shop sells when you know exactly what you want and you just want is to buy it and take it away.

Hiya french frank,

Well put! But you failed to add how nauseating this current appoach is! I can't bring my self to listen anymore but I know people who text in and try to answer the music played backwards question.

[french frank]

Well put! But you failed to add how nauseating this current appoach is! I can't bring my self to listen anymore but I know people who text in and try to answer the music played backwards question.

But … in my view this is mainly about the temperament of the individual listener. Yes, like you, I hate it. And the very things which I appreciated about Radio 3 were the things that Radio 3 has been surgically removing because other listeners didn't like what they thought of as over formal, stiff, stodgy, too serious. There are people who enjoy the brainteasers. And they'll enjoy whatever interactive gimmick it replaces. And they'll love - and hate - the new presenters.

The argument has to be on a level which isn't based on personality (listeners' as well as presenters'). Radio 3 has to be clear what the audience which it wants to target is like, admit that those who don't like it won't be listening, and decide what is best for Radio 3 (and the BBC) based on some pretty clearly defined criteria. If it wants to attract 'the broad audience', it must accept that many classical music lovers will be pushed out.

[french frank]

Ooh, ten minutes ago I got an email from an unknown person writing to FoR3:

Having been away for a week in early September 2017 I reuturn to find that the morning shcedule which I loved completely changed and replaced by a type of magasine programme fronted by Suzy Klein instead of the lovely Rob Cowan and his knowledge and sensetivity. working from home as I do the change and dumming down has disappointed me hugely. I may as well retune to Classic FM.

I said people here also didn't think much of it, but they didn't think much of it before the changes either. Advice: switching to Classic FM might send a message to R3. Though to be honest …