Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte
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Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate
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Originally posted by Beef Oven! View PostI don't think 'difficult' is intrinsic to the music, it's a 'mindset'. No music is difficult, unless you want it to be.
IMV, difficult often means "this music does not go where I expect music to go, things don't follow on as they 'should'. I don't feel comfortable listening to music that does not conform to my expectation. I'm frustrated that I can't call it rock or something else and forget about it, because it's composed by people from the 'classical tradition' and often orchestras are used".
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Originally posted by ahinton View PostIt's all of a piece with Schönberg, Bartók, Ives and some of their contemporaries still being regarded in some circles as "modern music", the sheer absurdity of which speaks for itself.
Originally posted by Beef Oven! View PostI don't think 'difficult' is intrinsic to the music, it's a 'mindset'. No music is difficult, unless you want it to be.
IMV, difficult often means "this music does not go where I expect music to go, things don't follow on as they 'should'. I don't feel comfortable listening to music that does not conform to my expectation. I'm frustrated that I can't call it rock or something else and forget about it, because it's composed by people from the 'classical tradition' and often orchestras are used".[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by ahinton View PostIt's all of a piece with Schönberg, Bartók, Ives and some of their contemporaries still being regarded in some circles as "modern music", the sheer absurdity of which speaks for itself.
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Does atonal music not present more of a challenge to many of us who were not brought up to it? Certainly does in my case: which is not a judgement on the music, except to say that, for me, and I suspect many others, much of it is more difficult. One could argue that nothing is difficult until perceived as such by a living being!
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Originally posted by Lento View PostDoes atonal music not present more of a challenge to many of us who were not brought up to it? Certainly does in my case: which is not a judgement on the music, except to say that, for me, and I suspect many others, much of it is more difficult.
One could argue that nothing is difficult until perceived as such by a living being![FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostI agree - with the proviso that, if you substitute "Classical" (or "Operatic" or "Gagaku", or ... ) for "Atonal", then this is statement is also true. Because, as you say ..
I would also add that "difficult" isn't necessarily a negative feature ("difficult is good" - Stephen Sondheim) - there's a lot of Music that I love more than any other that challenges my understanding. I've spent twenty years listening and analysing Debussy's Sonata for Flute, Harp & Viola - I think I've cracked the First movement. At this rate, in eighty years' time, I'll be ready to start work on Jeux!
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Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostI agree - with the proviso that, if you substitute "Classical" (or "Operatic" or "Gagaku", or ... ) for "Atonal", then this is statement is also true. Because, as you say ..
I would also add that "difficult" isn't necessarily a negative feature ("difficult is good" - Stephen Sondheim) - there's a lot of Music that I love more than any other that challenges my understanding. I've spent twenty years listening and analysing Debussy's Sonata for Flute, Harp & Viola - I think I've cracked the First movement. At this rate, in eighty years' time, I'll be ready to start work on Jeux!
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostTo quote Lou Reed's widow, "Now, difficult listening hour".
Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View PostI'm sure Boulez would be your best guide on Jeux, ferney - but possibly not in eighty years' time![FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostI agree - with the proviso that, if you substitute "Classical" (or "Operatic" or "Gagaku", or ... ) for "Atonal", then this is statement is also true.
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Originally posted by Beef Oven! View PostIf a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Or does the fact that the attached brains can't say "I definitely heard a sound" disqualify it from being a sound?I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!
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Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
But now I'm worried that seismometers cause earthquakes
...but maybe only on the other side of the universe?
[Yes, OK, I do appreciate that we are dealing with rather different scales here]I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!
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