Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[french frank]

I have probably missed the point, as I must have missed it through years of similar discussions hereabouts. I think it is fair to say that the 6 monthly(?) audience figures are far from conclusive as to the success of the tweeting celebrity culture. I have no problem with Private Passions meets RC when the guest has a real love of Classical music and has interesting things to say but it seems the population is not vast?

And on that point, since I'm currently 'on song', - the point about EC is apparently that guests should not know much about classical music, thus putting themselves on the same level as the target audience. Private Passions is for more musically knowledgeable guests (though my view is that they are beginning to run out of them), rather than well known personalities (especially BBC presenters from other radio stations).

[antongould]

Thank you ff, I stand enlightened ........

[french frank]

Thank you ff, I stand enlightened ........

Notwithstanding the 'snippiness'

I said that, with the 'apparently' qualification, because the target audience, stated in the original commissioning brief is 'as much of the Breakfast audience' as they can keep hold of (Breakfast being a key entry point for 'new' listeners to Radio 3) and Radio 4 listeners who are looking for something different when the Today programme finishes at the switchover point of 9am. That is not to say that there are no listeners to Today who are musically knowledgeable; but that it is the programme audience in general that is being enticed, not the musically knowledgeable.

Remember Paul Gambaccini's public statement (in Radio Times) that in 1995 with his Morning Collection he had 'a specific mission to invite Radio 4 listeners to stay with the BBC rather than switch over to Classic FM'.

That's how far Radio 3 strategic thinking is stuck in the past.

[antongould]

Not even half an ounce of snip.

[Lento]

I think someone should contrive to get Penelope Keith and Brian Sewell on the same programme: that would be music to the ears, possibly!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

.... perhaps on Indian National Radio or Radio Wimbledon &c ...

[Penn Igor]

[QUOTE=french frank;464590]I thought I had answered that - the criteria would be what the commissioning brief sets out as being the kind of programme Radio 3 wanted and how much they were prepared to pay for it. They would need (I'm surmising) to be satisfied that any independent production company which they had not previously commissioned had the experience and personnel to carry out what they were undertaking to do - presumably why Somethin' Else gets chosen for a range of BBC programming, especially music. I don't think there's a great deal of evidence that the process is any more mysterious than any other which involves public tenders. So I don't think it was really 'snippy' to express uncertainty as to what further information was required than what is already available.

Yes, many people make similar contributions on this thread, though mainly (I stand to be corrected) about specific items that have been heard on the programme. I see nothing 'snippy' about contributing to the thread and even disagreeing - or providing a modified answer - to what others have said. That doesn't alter the fact that I think Essential Classics , as conceived by Radio 3, to be unworthy of the station and better fitted for local radio than a quality arts/cultural service. And that will be made clear in the report that will soon be sent to the controller. But if you want to effect change, I take the view that it isn't done by brute force. That can even hinder it.

But, yes, I am (very well) aware that some people think that I, personally, am too reasonable and too willing to see the other side of the argument. But I do feel a game plan is necessary, and that unqualified critical attacks alone e not useful. The groups of angry listeners (and there have been several) who do nothing but express their views don't last long.[/QUO

...So what are "unqualified critical attacks" ? Do tell. Maybe we should give detalis of our academic credentials in future, in order that we might to be allowed to dare make a comment!

[Stanfordian]

I think someone should contrive to get Penelope Keith and Brian Sewell on the same programme: that would be music to the ears, possibly!

Hiya Lento,

Don't be giving the powers that be ideas. At least it's not Sandi Toksvig, Jonathan Stephen Ross or the conductor Sue Perkins on the same prog.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

...So what are "unqualified critical attacks" ? Do tell. Maybe we should give detalis of our academic credentials in future, in order that we might to be allowed to dare make a comment!

Surely "unqualified" here doesn't refer to degrees and diplomas - rather it may be translated as "unevidenced"?

[french frank]

...So what are "unqualified critical attacks" ? Do tell. Maybe we should give detalis of our academic credentials in future, in order that we might to be allowed to dare make a comment!

I mean the attacks were unqualified, not the people who utter them :-) 'Unqualified' as in 'without reservation', without 'qualification' [OED ' A clause, condition, circumstance, etc., which qualifies or modifies; a reservation, restriction, provision; (also) the action of modifying or limiting something; modification, limitation, restriction.].

In this context I meant, 'taking a blanket view, making a sweeping generalisation, that everything was bad when there were clearly good things as well'.

[antongould]

Whilst, one presumes, not in breach of the "rules" as detailed by ff, a, IMVVHO, much more interesting guest. Any views on the Piano Concerto? - always assuming anyone still listens!!!

[zola]

Whilst, one presumes, not in breach of the "rules" as detailed by ff, a, IMVVHO, much more interesting guest. Any views on the Piano Concerto? - always assuming anyone still listens!!!

I have long thought that a more productive way of obtaining new converts / listeners would be to target the devotees of the more adventurous and edgy end of rock / pop as opposed to going down the route of easy listening light music. Maconie and the other recent interesting guest Paul Morley epitomised that to me. Late converts explaining a new enthusiasm. Hopefully more likely to play Bartok or Stravinsky than Jonny Greenwood.

I switched on just after the beginning and so listened to Keith Emerson's concerto blind, my impression being "not great but a respectable try" and not out of place.

[french frank]

Whilst, one presumes, not in breach of the "rules" as detailed by ff, a, IMVVHO, much more interesting guest. Any views on the Piano Concerto? - always assuming anyone still listens!!!

Keith Emerson? And Radio 3 has clearly identified its potential new audience as frequenting 6Music, judging by the number of times their presenters are guesting on R3. Are they right, I wonder?

[antongould]

I have long thought that a more productive way of obtaining new converts / listeners would be to target the devotees of the more adventurous and edgy end of rock / pop as opposed to going down the route of easy listening light music. Maconie and the other recent interesting guest Paul Morley epitomised that to me. Late converts explaining a new enthusiasm. Hopefully more likely to play Bartok or Stravinsky than Jonny Greenwood.

I switched on just after the beginning and so listened to Keith Emerson's concerto blind, my impression being "not great but a respectable try" and not out of place.

I wholly agree - a very respectable try.

[french frank]

I have long thought that a more productive way of obtaining new converts / listeners would be to target the devotees of the more adventurous and edgy end of rock / pop as opposed to going down the route of easy listening light music. Maconie and the other recent interesting guest Paul Morley epitomised that to me. Late converts explaining a new enthusiasm.

Possibly - it depends what comes on throughout the week. The Emerson [only heard the Playlister snatch] reminded me bit of the frantic busyness of M. Torke (of whom one seems to hear rather less now?). The other piece was Copland. But it is only Monday.

The other question is whether the "6 Music" appeal pieces - like the Emerson - will ever lead people into the classical canon, which, for me, is what 'loving classical music means'. Whatever the processes by which 'the canon' came to be established, it is the spread of music down the centuries which shouldn't be derided because it's 'old'. Yes, Bartok and Stravinsky would be another step

Not keen on Mary Anne Hobbs being given airtime to play what she plays on 6 Music already - unless it's a quid pro quo: you nab some of our listeners and we'll nab some of yours