Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[JFLL]

And what is actually broadcast following the end of R3 Live in concert broadcasts? Is never announced anywhere until the very moment, and quite often more than half an hour's worth of music.

Yes, I fully agree about the post-evening concert slot, too. It almost seems like 'And here's a Beethoven quartet to fill the gap before Night Waves'. (I'm not wholly joking -- they play really substantial pieces in this limbo.) Totally ridiculous, and gratuitously cocking a snook at those who switch on to listen to a particular piece of music, not the package. Perhaps R3 should have a three-hour programme every week called 'Great Music of the Week which you probably missed because we didn't tell you we were going to play it'.

[doversoul1]

Yes, I fully agree about the post-evening concert slot, too. It almost seems like 'And here's a Beethoven quartet to fill the gap before Night Waves'. (I'm not wholly joking -- they play really substantial pieces in this limbo.) Totally ridiculous, and gratuitously cocking a snook at those who switch on to listen to a particular piece of music, not the package. Perhaps R3 should have a three-hour programme every week called 'Great Music of the Week which you probably missed because we didn't tell you we were going to play it'.

I think criticising the way this particular slot is managed is rather unfair. I expect it is possible for the BBC to find out the approximate duration of each concert beforehand but it is after all ‘live’ broadcast and anything can change. I made an enquiry about the slot and asked if there would be any chance of publishing the playlist. I had a very polite, detailed and honest reply from Ian Skelly. The following is part of his email (I did post this before somewhere on the Forum when a similar topic came up).

On the night itself it can often be very frantic behind the scenes making sure the music I play fits the gap available, which is always a last minute thing because the slot is entirely dependent upon when the live concert ends. We have to make sure the next scheduled programme starts bang on time as later in the night everything becomes completely fixed to the clock. […] so everything is very tightly timed. It can be like landing a jumbo jet on a postage stamp


It is ‘to fill the gap before Night Waves’. What else can it be? And the music selected is often quite interesting. Ian Skelly mentions ‘the producer’ in his reply, so I imagine the selection is not entirely his*. I still think it will be good if they publish the playlist afterword but that may be another matter.

[ed.] *If sometimes it may look all ‘oh, not again’ kind of choice, IS cannot entirely to be blamed.

[Roehre]

....And the music selected is often quite interesting......

which makes it even more deplorable, given the eternal warhorses broadcast during the morning hours of R3.

I do acknowledge the specific difficulties re planning to fill the gap after the end of a live concert.
It only directs the spotlight even more at the indifference of the producers of the afternoon programmes, where four of the five weekday programmes consist of recordings of which the duration is known to the second - but the beginning of a work, and its duration, is given with a margin of 5 or even more minutes.

[JFLL]

I think criticising the way this particular slot is managed is rather unfair. I expect it is possible for the BBC to find out the approximate duration of each concert beforehand but it is after all ‘live’ broadcast and anything can change. I made an enquiry about the slot and asked if there would be any chance of publishing the playlist. I had a very polite, detailed and honest reply from Ian Skelly. The following is part of his email (I did post this before somewhere on the Forum when a similar topic came up).

On the night itself it can often be very frantic behind the scenes making sure the music I play fits the gap available, which is always a last minute thing because the slot is entirely dependent upon when the live concert ends. We have to make sure the next scheduled programme starts bang on time as later in the night everything becomes completely fixed to the clock. […] so everything is very tightly timed. It can be like landing a jumbo jet on a postage stamp


It is ‘to fill the gap before Night Waves’. What else can it be? And the music selected is often quite interesting. Ian Skelly mentions ‘the producer’ in his reply, so I imagine the selection is not entirely his. I still think it will be good if they publish the playlist afterword but that may be another matter.

But why should everything have to become "completely fixed to the clock. […] so that everything is very tightly timed"? And anyway, my guess is that the R3 people have a reasonable idea of when a live relay is likely to end – say to the nearest quarter of an hour – so that if they were fairly sure they'd have half an hour they could decide to play an early Beethoven quartet and publish their intention beforehand. The 'gap' before ten o'clock is in fact usually half-an-hour or more these days.

It is ‘to fill the gap before Night Waves’. What else can it be?

You could say that 'Night Waves' was filling the gap after the Beethoven quartet!

[Frances_iom]

But why should everything have to become "completely fixed to the clock. […] so that everything is very tightly timed"?

isn't everthing running off a recording post 10pm (I suspect the annoying nightly studio greeting/advert to the nighwaves presenter is actually them clocking off rather than clocking on - remember Rodger in his wisdom didn't actually want R3 live as it meant he had to employ staff post 6pm.

[french frank]

But why should everything have to become "completely fixed to the clock.

One answer is that now Radio 3 is, like most others, a 24-hour broadcaster. TTN is beamed out to many countries in Europe, so for their schedules it has to start and finish on time. The post concert interval is the kind of live buffer needed to control timings so that you don't end up playing all Monday's programmes on Tuesday ...

It would be useful if it was announced, with an approximate start time, as 'An impromptu selection of music'. And the playlist then published.

[Hornspieler]

One answer is that now Radio 3 is, like most others, a 24-hour broadcaster. TTN is beamed out to many countries in Europe, so for their schedules it has to start and finish on time. The post concert interval is the kind of live buffer needed to control timings so that you don't end up playing all Monday's programmes on Tuesday ...

It would be useful if it was announced, with an approximate start time, as 'An impromptu selection of music'. And the playlist then published.

OK, the live performance you tuned in for is ended. Why not just switch off?

If you were actually there at the performance, you would be walking out of the hall and on your way home or off for some refreshment.

So go out to the kitchen and make yourself a cuppa (or investigate the contents of your drinks cabinet)

As the song from Oklahoma goes - " ... a lot of chaplets in a pot of tea!"

HS

NB This post is not actually directed at any one individual but towards all those who have posted their complaints on this thread.

[Osborn]

Quite right HS. Anyway, after an enjoyable live concert the last thing I want is more music.

[Roehre]

OK, the live performance you tuned in for is ended. Why not just switch off?.

I might be interested in the "fillers", but most of the time I am not in the live concerts. My spare time is to precious to spill it on concerts which most of the time offer music I know inside out already.

[JFLL]

I might be interested in the "fillers", but most of the time I am not in the live concerts. My spare time is to precious to spill it on concerts which most of the time offer music I know inside out already.

Exactly.

[JFLL]

Just to add that there was a classic example of the Fill the Gap with Unannounced Masterpieces syndrome today on EC. The 11.00 slot (published) was Copland's Billy the Kid, something I didn't want to hear, but I thought, wait a minute, that only lasts 20 minutes or so, so that leaves 35-40 minutes unaccounted for in the schedule. And what did we have? First, Bruckner's Christus factus est, well worth hearing, and then Mendelssohn's Octet, one of the masterpieces of the chamber repertoire, in an excellent performance by artists including Christian Tetzlaff, Lisa Batiashvili, Isabelle Faust and Antoine Tamestit, a live recording from the 2008 Spannungen Festival in Heimbach. And the pre-published 'star turn' was Billy the Kid!

EDIT. For the record, the list of substantial works, unheralded, performed in the post-11.00 slot on Essential Classics this week:

Tuesday 26 June 11.29am
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart Clarinet Quintet, K.581
Performers: George Pieterson (clarinet), Grumiaux Quartet

Wednesday 27 June 11.26am
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart Piano Concerto in G, K.453
Performers: Annerose Schmidt (piano), Dresden Philharmonic, Kurt Masur (conductor)

Thursday 28 June 11.48am
Gustav Holst Lyric Movement for Viola and Orchestra
Performers: Cecil Aronowitz (viola), English Chamber Orchestra, Imogen Holst (conductor)

Friday 29 June 11.27am
Felix Mendelssohn Octet, Op.20
Performers: Christian Tetzlaff, Isabelle Faust, Lisa Batiashvili, Antje Weithaas (violins), Rachel Roberts, Ori Kam (violas), Tanya Tetzlaff, Quirine Viersen (cellos)

Nuff said.

[Nick Armstrong]

Just to add that there was a classic example of the Fill the Gap with Unannounced Masterpieces syndrome today on EC. The 11.00 slot (published) was Copland's Billy the Kid, something I didn't want to hear, but I thought, wait a minute, that only lasts 20 minutes or so, so that leaves 35-40 minutes unaccounted for in the schedule. And what did we have? First, Bruckner's Christus factus est, well worth hearing, and then Mendelssohn's Octet, one of the masterpieces of the chamber repertoire, in an excellent performance by artists including Christian Tetzlaff, Lisa Batiashvili, Isabelle Faust and Antoine Tamestit, a live recording from the 2008 Spannungen Festival in Heimbach. And the pre-published 'star turn' was Billy the Kid!

It happens a lot before 11 when the chat with the 'celebrity' goes short, as it increasingly seems to do. The genial Andrew Graham-Dixon last week didn't seem to know much music and was over and done with by not long after 10 45 on the days I listened. The 'design guru' Somebody Bayley this week seems to rejoice in being a self-proclaimed musical ignoramus. What do we gain by having these people on?

[old khayyam]

What do we gain by having these people on?

'Delboy at the opera'

[Serial_Apologist]

By contrast, Simon McBurney on Desert Island Discs this morning was a treasure trove of stimulating musical choices: Aretha Franklin, Gil-Scot Heron, Frank Zappa, Gyorgy Ligeti, a singer from Mali whose name escaped me, a 12-year old Mongolian throat singer...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

By contrast, Simon McBurney on Desert Island Discs this morning was a treasure trove of stimulating musical choices: Aretha Franklin, Gil-Scot Heron, Frank Zappa, Gyorgy Ligeti, a singer from Mali whose name escaped me, a 12-year old Mongolian throat singer...

Yes!
The girl (Vanessa Oucholin) was atonishing - "traditional" Music about lighting a fire that sounded like one of the better Berio Sequenzas.

Other details:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01kr7q1