Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[Roger Webb]

Football still has commentators who are TV or Radio professionals but cricket seems to have gone largely down the ex player route . Some are excellent : others aren’t. Presenting is , again , a different skill to commentating. Some commentators just aren’t up to it as presenters and vice versa.
Commentating on a team game like football or rugby is one of the most difficult jobs of the lot - so many names and very fast paced. It’s all very unfair - TV tennis commentary (as far as the BBC is concerned ) is all about not talking during the action and then very rapidly summing things up. Never done it but having seen it I reckon it’s a toss up between TV racing commentary and Radio tennis commentary for the most difficult. The amount of words you have to get out in a short space of time and the level of accuracy needed.

Presenters are there to help you enjoy something, commentators merely to tell you what just happened!

[smittims]

I once grumpily told a train manager, who refused to tell people to be quiet in the 'quiet' coach, that I'd move to the 'noisy coach' knowing it would be less noisy.

[french frank]

Football still has commentators who are TV or Radio professionals but cricket seems to have gone largely down the ex player route . Some are excellent : others aren’t. Presenting is , again , a different skill to commentating. Some commentators just aren’t up to it as presenters and vice versa.

Some years back - must have been more than 20 - Roger Wright had the idea (communicated in a press release) that if sports professionals commented on their sport e.g. Lineker on football, Sue Barker on tennis, music performers ('players') could be presenters on R3. But a tennis player commenting on tennis isn't the same as an orchestral percussionist commenting on 'music'. That was where Inside Music didn't work for me: a harpsichordist introducing eight of their favourite pieces of music seemed a total lost opportunity. As does a saxophonist chatting with another musician about favourite works.

The two professional musicians being introduced by Roger Wright were Andrew Manze and Catherine Bott - both presenting "The Early Music Show". Both knew about their specialism and CB in particular seemed to me to be a natural broadcaster. AM moved on to another area of performance - conducting.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Some years back - must have been more than 20 - Roger Wright had the idea (communicated in a press release) that if sports professionals commented on their sport e.g. Lineker on football, Sue Barker on tennis, music performers ('players') could be presenters on R3. But a tennis player commenting on tennis isn't the same as an orchestral percussionist commenting on 'music'. That was where Inside Music didn't work for me: a harpsichordist introducing eight of their favourite pieces of music seemed a total lost opportunity. As does a saxophonist chatting with another musician about favourite works.

The two professional musicians being introduced by Roger Wright were Andrew Manze and Catherine Bott - both presenting "The Early Music Show". Both knew about their specialism and CB in particular seemed to me to be a natural broadcaster. AM moved on to another area of performance - conducting.

The success of Inside Music very much depended on the musician. Some did offer very interesting insights to their craft and indeed what goes on in that world. Like the recent edition with a London orchestral percussionist who revealed the point in certain works in which he essentially ignored the conductor and did what he felt right. One was a percussion outburst in the War Requiem. It was much more informative than most ex tennis players on. Wimbledon - with the exception of John McEnroe who is peerless.
It’s funny isn’t it but I don’t share the general enthusiasm for Catherine Bott, I think her delivery is over formal - a bit too reminiscent of the fifties for me. Equally I used to find some of the American accents on Inside Music very grating . There’s a tendency for some Americans to speak in a very flat almost robotic way with very little rise and fall in the voice . It’s very hard to listen to,

[Old Grumpy]

The two professional musicians being introduced by Roger Wright were Andrew Manze and Catherine Bott - both presenting "The Early Music Show". Both knew about their specialism and CB in particular seemed to me to be a natural broadcaster. AM moved on to another area of performance - conducting.

EMS in the days of CB and AM was indeed excellent. I distinctly remember one episode by CB from the Villa d'Este:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j0hb9

[cloughie]

Some years back - must have been more than 20 - Roger Wright had the idea (communicated in a press release) that if sports professionals commented on their sport e.g. Lineker on football, Sue Barker on tennis, music performers ('players') could be presenters on R3. But a tennis player commenting on tennis isn't the same as an orchestral percussionist commenting on 'music'. That was where Inside Music didn't work for me: a harpsichordist introducing eight of their favourite pieces of music seemed a total lost opportunity. As does a saxophonist chatting with another musician about favourite works.

The two professional musicians being introduced by Roger Wright were Andrew Manze and Catherine Bott - both presenting "The Early Music Show". Both knew about their specialism and CB in particular seemed to me to be a natural broadcaster. AM moved on to another area of performance - conducting.

His RVW is very good!

[AuntDaisy]

Some years back - must have been more than 20 - Roger Wright had the idea (communicated in a press release) that if sports professionals commented on their sport e.g. Lineker on football, Sue Barker on tennis, music performers ('players') could be presenters on R3. But a tennis player commenting on tennis isn't the same as an orchestral percussionist commenting on 'music'. That was where Inside Music didn't work for me: a harpsichordist introducing eight of their favourite pieces of music seemed a total lost opportunity. As does a saxophonist chatting with another musician about favourite works.

The two professional musicians being introduced by Roger Wright were Andrew Manze and Catherine Bott - both presenting "The Early Music Show". Both knew about their specialism and CB in particular seemed to me to be a natural broadcaster. AM moved on to another area of performance - conducting.

Bottie is the best


Possible minor quibble re. Roger Wright introducing AM & CB...
Andrew Manze and, later in the series, Catherine Bott both presented the excellent "Music Restored" - the predecessor to "The Early Music Show". As did Lucie Skeaping, amongst others.
I wish R3 would repeat "Music Restored", along with the older "Early Music Show" programmes.

[smittims]

I don't mind admitting that I'm an out-and-out Catherine Bott fan, of her singing (her Oiseau-Lyre 'Dido' is a gem) as well as her speaking on R3.

I think the problem with getting musicians to talk on air about music is simply that some people, however good they are at their 'day job' simply lack an aptitude for public speaking. Some have unattractive voices and some are too garrulous for their own good. Public speaking is a skill, like playing an instrument, .that needs to be learnt , and also requires a basic aptitude which some people just don't have.

[french frank]

The success of Inside Music very much depended on the musician. Some did offer very interesting insights to their craft and indeed what goes on in that world. Like the recent edition with a London orchestral percussionist who revealed the point in certain works in which he essentially ignored the conductor and did what he felt right. One was a percussion outburst in the War Requiem.

Which was my point about IM: a percussionist talking about his art/practice rather than introducing records he enjoyed with nary a boing or a bash to be heard.

It’s funny isn’t it but I don’t share the general enthusiasm for Catherine Bott, I think her delivery is over formal - a bit too reminiscent of the fifties for me.

There are grades of formality, I suppose and we all insert our No-No at a different point. CB just seems like standard RP to me, considerablly less formal than, for instance, Benjamin Britten. Or Brian Sewell. Or most of the announcers I can remember from the fifties.

[oddoneout]

I don't mind admitting that I'm an out-and-out Catherine Bott fan, of her singing (her Oiseau-Lyre 'Dido' is a gem) as well as her speaking on R3.

I think the problem with getting musicians to talk on air about music is simply that some people, however good they are at their 'day job' simply lack an aptitude for public speaking. Some have unattractive voices and some are too garrulous for their own good. Public speaking is a skill, like playing an instrument, .that needs to be learnt , and also requires a basic aptitude which some people just don't have.

That is true in many spheres of life - the teacher who inspires isn't necessarily the one with the greatest subject knowledge for instance. "Inside Music" did manage to find some musicians who were not only knowledgeable, but also good at conveying that knowledge, and using the choice of music to illustrate points effectively. It just highlighted the extent to which others just coasted, as I saw it. Perhaps the blurb that we read for the programme wasn't the brief they were given, or perhaps they didn't interpret it as we did and were therefore expecting.
It's where the cult of Big Names falls down - just bagging a BN to front a programme does not automatically make a good programme even if it may pull in audience, initially at least.

[Alison]

A pleasant surprise to hear all of Sibelius 7 on EC today, Lahti/Vanska. Well done Georgia.

On the other hand I hadn’t realised Ms Alker was on the roster for the afternoon show

[Ein Heldenleben]

A pleasant surprise to hear all of Sibelius 7 on EC today, Lahti/Vanska. Well done Georgia. ??

On the other hand I hadn’t realised Ms Alker was on the roster for the afternoon show

…. excerpting Sibelius 7 would be my line in the sand . absolutely indefensible. Apart from anything else good luck with finding a fade point

[LMcD]

An extra treat for fans of EC at 1.30 this morning - 'Essential Classics Mix - an hour of soothing Essential Classics to relax and calm the mind'.

[french frank]

An extra treat for fans of EC at 1.30 this morning - 'Essential Classics Mix - an hour of soothing Essential Classics to relax and calm the mind'.

This seems to have quietly replaced the Music and Meditation podcast. Where has Controller Jackson been if he hasn't noticed that an hour of soothing classical music 'to relax and calm the mind' is exactly out of the CFM playbook? Why not just broadcast TTN? This is still the Same old, Same old short bits and pieces.

[AuntDaisy]

An extra treat for fans of EC at 1.30 this morning - 'Essential Classics Mix - an hour of soothing Essential Classics to relax and calm the mind'.

This seems to have quietly replaced the Music and Meditation podcast. Where has Controller Jackson been if he hasn't noticed that an hour of soothing classical music 'to relax and calm the mind' is exactly out of the CFM playbook? Why not just broadcast TTN? This is still the Same old, Same old short bits and pieces.

Hopefully it's a "swansong" - or more of a dead duck.
It looks as if TTN might be returning to its Saturday 6 hour completeness from the 18th May... at least for 4 weeks.