Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[Ein Heldenleben]

It was you! The point is that the commission required certain results from the indie production company which won the contract. Success, or lack of it, would be measurable (more people switching off at 9am? Fail. Average listener age going up rather than down? Fail). But I don't see why BBC producers would need to 'talk about' the audiences and what they were trying to achieve. Their own remit requirements would be built into the programme they set out to produce.

I maintained for years that Radio 3's budget had been squeezed for years, compared with the increased millions that went into the other BBC stations, notably Radio 2. Before Davey took over I showed him the budget figures over past years to illustrate this fact and put to him the view expressed by others that he was being employed as a cost-cutter. He said that was not the job he was being asked to do. He may have been sincere in that, but in that case he was unable to stop the squeeze imposed by the BBC higher echelons.

Thing is FF that budget freeze has big implications for the production staff with bills to pay . I bet they talk much more about that than the audience entry points and all the other management mumbo jumbo. My assertion that producers don’t talk about audiences much (except to say this is the sort of thing they might like ) is based on when I was a producer and we virtually never talked about such things and then when I was a manager and had endless PowerPoint analyses which demonstrated pretty much the William Goldman quip “nobody knows anything” *. Audiences and their behaviour like individual human beings are essentially enigmatic and unknowable,

* he was talking about the movie business

[Roger Webb]

I know that part of Suffolk very well as a relative has a holiday home there. One of those places where you can combine having a pint at a riverside pub and birdwatch. I don’t know the string quartets - must have a listen . They were a very interesting couple - her reputation seems to be eclipsing his.

There are a couple of recordings of the SQs now, both good. Your mentioning holiday homes reminds me to say that the one we stayed in this time, just off the High St in Aldeburgh was the home of Viola Tunnard who was Britten's favoured harpsichord player (she made a few recordings for Decca). We used to stay in 'Cosy Nook' in the grounds of The Red House, which had been Britten and Pears' cook's cottage, this is available - along with Imogen Holst's gem of a studio in Church Walk as accomodation for bona fides researchers.

Yes, a pint of Adam's overlooking the Blythe reed beds is heaven!

[french frank]

Thing is FF that budget freeze has big implications for the production staff with bills to pay [...] .

Just briefly, as I want to get back to Gargoyle's original question.

I can well understand that budgets - especially at R3 - must be, in the imposed circumstances, a continual headache for those who need to spend the money. Point taken.

But on audiences: the BBC has a team dedicated to audiences, and carries out a considerable amount of research, as does Ofcom, and both periodically produce reports on their conclusions. Also the government demands to know how well the BBC is serving its audiences. As far as I know, audience complaints is the only area outsourced to a private company (which knows nothing about the services complained of).

Gargoyle's question about 'education' is fascinating. If I were asked about Radio 3's current achievements in informing, educating and entertaining, I would give it two ticks (perhaps one and a half) - for informing and entertaining. I'm not at all sure that there is much attempt at education, but at what point does informing (telling people something they don't know) become education? To my mind, hearing a piece of music I'd never heard (of) before, and a fact or two, is a very low bar for education. A single focused programme of information, like CotW, can be termed educational. But a hotch-potch of bits and bobs - like most of R3's lengthier strands - could not. Education in this context requires a sustained presentation of connected information.

One of the regular points the BBC puts to audiences is on the lines of: "I have learned something new from this programme" Agree/disagree on a scale of 1-10, or Strongly/Slightly etc. That would not, to my mind constitute a measure of educational value. BUT, it may be enough to satisfy an individual viewer or listener; it may be all the 'education' wanted.

So I might well say I thought Essential Classics had little/no educational value (and was not intended to have), whereas a regular listener might fundamentally disagree with me. Neither of us would be wrong: we just have differing expectations and requirements.

[oddoneout]

I'm now confused.
I switched the radio on at 12.15 to find Bach Brandenburg in progress - all very nice. Come the end of the movement, expected ad or chat, but no - next movement, then the next etc until the end as writ. Braced for ad onslaught, but came there none, just necessary details from Mr Skelly re performers, then some more music. In the end just one ad(and pretty unobtrusive at that) and minimal presenter in 45 minutes.
So what was the previous 2h 45 mins like - did that have all the missing ads, chat and gimmicks?

[LMcD]

There are a couple of recordings of the SQs now, both good. Your mentioning holiday homes reminds me to say that the one we stayed in this time, just off the High St in Aldeburgh was the home of Viola Tunnard who was Britten's favoured harpsichord player (she made a few recordings for Decca). We used to stay in 'Cosy Nook' in the grounds of The Red House, which had been Britten and Pears' cook's cottage, this is available - along with Imogen Holst's gem of a studio in Church Walk as accomodation for bona fides researchers.

Yes, a pint of Adam's overlooking the Blythe reed beds is heaven!

Adams or Adnams?

[Pulcinella]

Adams or Adnams?

Adam's ale can be quite refreshing at times, but (knowing Roger: memories of The Brewery Tap at the top of Christmas Steps) I suspect a typo here.

[LMcD]

Adam's ale can be quite refreshing at times, but (knowing Roger: memories of The Brewery Tap at the top of Christmas Steps) I suspect a typo here.

Blythe reed beds > Suffolk > Adnams?
If he was drinking whisky, it would be a case of Blythe Spirit, I guess.

[Pulcinella]

Blythe reed beds > Suffolk > Adnams?
If he was drinking whisky, it would be a case of Blythe Spirit, I guess.

I often forget Margaret Rutherford's role's name and think of it as Madame Sosostris: can you imagine her singing Tippett?

[Ein Heldenleben]

It’s Adnams and Blyth with no ‘e’

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm now confused.
I switched the radio on at 12.15 to find Bach Brandenburg in progress - all very nice. Come the end of the movement, expected ad or chat, but no - next movement, then the next etc until the end as writ. Braced for ad onslaught, but came there none, just necessary details from Mr Skelly re performers, then some more music. In the end just one ad(and pretty unobtrusive at that) and minimal presenter in 45 minutes.
So what was the previous 2h 45 mins like - did that have all the missing ads, chat and gimmicks?

As soon as I point out that EC played only one piece of Bach in the last 28 days they play another. Both were movements from a Brandenburg.

[oddoneout]

As soon as I point out that EC played only one piece of Bach in the last 28 days they play another. Both were movements from a Brandenburg.

As they played the whole Brandenburg 1 today that could up the tally considerably if they count all the movements as separate plays!

[Andrew Slater]

thanks Andrew - quite incredibly useful. One staggering headline
In the last 28 days just one piece of J.S. Bach arguably the greatest composer who ever lived and some one who repays daily study,

I get 17:

https://radio-lists.org.uk/r3/pldb/pl_v12-05.php?reptype=sim&replen=600&artist=*&title=*&pro g=*ssential*&latest=2024-04-05&days=28&composer=Johann%20Sebastian%20Bach#res u lts

This is a summary of composers covered and the number of pieces (click on a composer to see the details):

https://radio-lists.org.uk/r3/pldb/pl_v12-05.php?reptype=sum&replen=600&incartists=no&compos er=*&title=*&artist=*&prog=*ssential*&latest=2024-04-05&days=28&repoff=0&datalen=0#results

[Ein Heldenleben]

I get 17:

https://radio-lists.org.uk/r3/pldb/pl_v12-05.php?reptype=sim&replen=600&artist=*&title=*&pro g=*ssential*&latest=2024-04-05&days=28&composer=Johann%20Sebastian%20Bach#res u lts

This is a summary of composers covered and the number of pieces (click on a composer to see the details):

https://radio-lists.org.uk/r3/pldb/pl_v12-05.php?reptype=sum&replen=600&incartists=no&compos er=*&title=*&artist=*&prog=*ssential*&latest=2024-04-05&days=28&repoff=0&datalen=0#results

Ah yes - that was just one week you originally posted . Still only one JS Bach piece in a week sounds fairly meagre to me
..
Your final tally has some extraordinary things in it , Gershwin gets more plays than Wagner (arguably the most significant artistic figure of the 19th century) and Verdi - just one piece from him . And he lends himself to short extracts.

[cloughie]

Blythe reed beds > Suffolk > Adnams?
If he was drinking whisky, it would be a case of Blythe Spirit, I guess.

When was living in the Midlands, not far from where the River Blythe runs I always felt that an opportunity had been missed for a local entrepreneur distiller!

[LMcD]

Petroc's dong his best to help promote J S Bach just before 0700 5 times a week!