Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

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  • Ein Heldenleben
    Full Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 6788

    Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
    Tom McKinney gushed loud and long concerning the playing of the final movement of Tchaikovsky’s Sixth. As well he might.
    The problem was he immediately followed this recording of one of the most heart-wrenching movements with that one-trick pony composer, Scott Joplin and his Elite Syncopations (in truth any and all Joplin’s work sounds exactly the same. I curse “The Sting” for bringing this third-rater back into circulation).
    As an example of cloth-eared juxtaposition it is hard to describe and the sad part is that the presenter obviously couldn’t see it.
    I enjoyed the Musica Aeterna / Currentzis Pathetique so much I’ve just listened to the whole performance on Qobuz! Presumably the rasping sound on the final movt is his breathing? Much of the extraordinary effect is close micing of the strings that brings a lot of orchestral detail to the fore particularly seconds and viola parts that usually get obscured .It won’t be to every ones taste but I liked it.
    I agree re the juxtaposition . Very grating …

    Comment

    • oddoneout
      Full Member
      • Nov 2015
      • 9205

      Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
      Tom McKinney gushed loud and long concerning the playing of the final movement of Tchaikovsky’s Sixth. As well he might.
      The problem was he immediately followed this recording of one of the most heart-wrenching movements with that one-trick pony composer, Scott Joplin and his Elite Syncopations (in truth any and all Joplin’s work sounds exactly the same. I curse “The Sting” for bringing this third-rater back into circulation).
      As an example of cloth-eared juxtaposition it is hard to describe and the sad part is that the presenter obviously couldn’t see it.
      I find it happens less often than I would have expected given the quantity of material involved. The big offenders are more likely to be the adverts - and I'm not sure how much, if any control presenters have over which will appear, perhaps the best they can do is make a slight gap before pushing the intrusion button?

      Comment

      • Frances_iom
        Full Member
        • Mar 2007
        • 2413

        Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
        ... The big offenders are more likely to be the adverts - and I'm not sure how much, if any control presenters have over which will appear...?
        My guess is none - they seem directed by a higher authority as a campaign for that week's selected targets - there is no doubt a focus group somewhere but they now infest all BBC radio - some on R4 seem to be strictly timetabled with jarring cuts to existing interviews to allow for these adverts. In many ways R4 news has lost much of its programme integrity in the need to include pseudo news slots pushing the selected target of these adverts - there seems also be be a growing pussy footing around US politics with several of the interviewees on the Trump side spouting nonsense just like the spokespeople for Putin etc but without being called out for it.

        To return to the music - the cause for complete works has been lost years ago - from the age of the walkman onwards listening to music requires little effort or equipment - anything so cheaply available rapidly loses any value being just something to mask other noises.

        Comment

        • cloughie
          Full Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 22127

          Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
          I find it happens less often than I would have expected given the quantity of material involved. The big offenders are more likely to be the adverts - and I'm not sure how much, if any control presenters have over which will appear, perhaps the best they can do is make a slight gap before pushing the intrusion button?
          Surely the producer is the programme’s timekeeper and should combine this with a bit of sense and sensibility could adjust juxtapositioning. What annoys me intensely is when I’m listening to an interesting discussion or interview on Radio Cornwall the presenter says ‘I’m going to break now for some music - plays something fairly dreadful from the playlist which has no relevance to the interviewee and more than likely I’ll turn off or switch to R3 and they’ve lost another listener.

          Comment

          • cloughie
            Full Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 22127

            The bridge from Breakfast to Essential Classics this morning according to Georgia was the 3rd movement of Saint-Saens 3rd Symphony!

            Comment

            • hmvman
              Full Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 1107

              Originally posted by cloughie View Post
              The bridge from Breakfast to Essential Classics this morning according to Georgia was the 3rd movement of Saint-Saens 3rd Symphony!
              I think it was Petroc's link but, yes, I was rather taken aback by that one!

              Comment

              • kernelbogey
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 5749

                Thought I'd cross-post this, from the Breakfast thread:
                Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
                A piece in the Guardian today suggests that radio audiences are moving their listening to later in the morning. If true, this might explain Essential Classics's popularity, though I didn't find the argument convincing. I look forward to m'learned friend's comments on RAJAR figures anon.

                Comment

                • french frank
                  Administrator/Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 30302

                  There you go. I'd so lost interest in R3 that I hadn't even kept up with the release dates

                  One of the reasons that Essential Classics is now, according to the figures I've seen (they're not publicly released ), the programme with the widest reach is that it is now 3 hours long - the first R3 programme ever to cover the entire morning from 9am - 12. All things being equal, the longer the programme the more listeners it gets as people tune in and tune out during the course of the programme.

                  I need to check up these days but as far as I remember R3 had always had pretty hefty morning audiences with more retired people listening. The slot inherits some of the Breakfast audience as they only have to go on listening for 5 minutes and then switch off. Breakfast doesn't really inherit much from TTN.

                  As far as the Guardian article goes, I doubt much can be learnt about R3 - James O'Brien has had a lot of publicity lately and that will have attracted a lot of listeners. R3's overall figure failed to reach 2m last quarter, and the Breakfast figure has been better - much better in the days of Morning on 3 when it was the 3-hour programme.

                  My memory is that CD Masters also had very good listening figures considering the likely audience. The slot had to 'increase its accessibility', via Classical Collection and Essential Classics, quite a lot to outdo CDM!
                  It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                  Comment

                  • Ein Heldenleben
                    Full Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 6788

                    Originally posted by french frank View Post
                    There you go. I'd so lost interest in R3 that I hadn't even kept up with the release dates

                    One of the reasons that Essential Classics is now, according to the figures I've seen (they're not publicly released ), the programme with the widest reach is that it is now 3 hours long - the first R3 programme ever to cover the entire morning from 9am - 12. All things being equal, the longer the programme the more listeners it gets as people tune in and tune out during the course of the programme.

                    I need to check up these days but as far as I remember R3 had always had pretty hefty morning audiences with more retired people listening. The slot inherits some of the Breakfast audience as they only have to go on listening for 5 minutes and then switch off. Breakfast doesn't really inherit much from TTN.

                    As far as the Guardian article goes, I doubt much can be learnt about R3 - James O'Brien has had a lot of publicity lately and that will have attracted a lot of listeners. R3's overall figure failed to reach 2m last quarter, and the Breakfast figure has been better - much better in the days of Morning on 3 when it was the 3-hour programme.

                    My memory is that CD Masters also had very good listening figures considering the likely audience. The slot had to 'increase its accessibility', via Classical Collection and Essential Classics, quite a lot to outdo CDM!
                    Radio 3 down Q3 to Q4 from 1.6%to 1.4% share in TSA but level with last measured Q4 in 2019
                    Radio Cornwall massively up Q3 to Q4 16% to 22.8%
                    Radio 1 and 2 up slightly
                    Radio 4 down more than slightly..

                    Comment

                    • french frank
                      Administrator/Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 30302

                      Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                      Radio 3 down Q3 to Q4 from 1.6%to 1.4% share in TSA but level with last measured Q4 in 2019
                      Radio Cornwall massively up Q3 to Q4 16% to 22.8%
                      Radio 1 and 2 up slightly
                      Radio 4 down more than slightly..
                      I wasn't quite sure about what to make of Q3's figures, but it seems the 'modified survey methodology ... should be considered when making comparisons ' this time too.

                      I think cloughie has quite a large family. Plus Petroc. Not sure what's happened to the usual RAJAR thread
                      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                      Comment

                      • kernelbogey
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 5749

                        Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                        Radio Cornwall massively up Q3 to Q4 16% to 22.8%
                        Cloughie switching on and off again repeatedly?

                        Comment

                        • Serial_Apologist
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 37699

                          Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
                          Cloughie switching on and off again repeatedly?

                          Comment

                          • french frank
                            Administrator/Moderator
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 30302

                            I found this thread (latest post first) about the demise of Classical Collection (Essential Classics' predecessor) interesting. And so many of the 'whingers' have now departed it's not surprising that today's listening figures suggest that recent strategies have resulted in as many people leaving as are discovering a new source of listening. Radio 3 'redefining its audience' again? If so 3/10 - must try harder.
                            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                            Comment

                            • cloughie
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 22127

                              Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
                              Cloughie switching on and off again repeatedly?
                              Radio Cornwall is not what it was - the music gets worse so it is now ‘off’ more than ‘on’ and I now listen much more to R3 of a morning - I continue a lifetime trait of going against the trend!

                              Comment

                              • cloughie
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 22127

                                Eric Whitacre: Leonardo dreams of his flying machine was the Starter for the playlist this morning. I thought the ideal follow on was RVW’ A vision of aeroplanes’ as apparently also a few others but Tom McKinney said the producers were concerned over the length of work - now 9 and a half minutes doesn’t seem over the lengthy but what do I know - instead he included the Lakme Flower Duet and a couple of popular flying machine works by Bagel and Ron Goodwin. - ah well no accounting for taste!
                                Last edited by cloughie; 16-02-22, 13:29.

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