Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

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  • Barbirollians
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 11669

    Originally posted by Suffolkcoastal View Post
    It is normal these days to get an influx of J Strauss II at the start of January, but this year it seems to be worse than usual. Music on the Brink could have been an interesting idea if properly planned and thought through, but its coming over as rather scrappy at the moment.
    I agree but this is complete nonsense - an excuse to play music from 1914 randomly but without any real theme or structure .

    Comment

    • Serial_Apologist
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 37602

      Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
      I agree but this is complete nonsense - an excuse to play music from 1914 randomly but without any real theme or structure .
      COTW this week is proving to be one exception to this however, mercifully...

      Comment

      • Suffolkcoastal
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 3290

        COTW is still one of the few programmes on R3 that managed to maintain standards and has a fair degree of professionalism. The trouble with much of the rest of the Music on the Brink series is that they are trying to fit it to the various misconceived programmes of recent years like Inessential Classics

        Comment

        • Bax-of-Delights
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 745

          Music on the Brink is a concept that deserves much better than what is presently on offer. It is the kind of theme that I would suppose many of us who have been critical of R3's style in recent years would argue has the potential to bring in the new listener as well as offer insights and discussions on the European musical world in the first 14 years of the 20th century.

          Sadly, what we are given is a mish-mash of gobbets of music scattered throughout the day's offerings which has little relevance to either each other or the rest of the music in any programme (COTW excepted). What is needed is a series totally dedicated to the music of the period interspersed with a commentary placing developments within context both historical and musical. It feels and sounds like someone in the R3 back office had the idea to tack onto the general centenary acknowledgement of WW1 but couldn't be bothered to go the whole hog. Instead we have that annoying jingle with the equally annoying voice-over used on cookery programmes announcing "Music on the Brink" at random and irrelevantly.
          O Wort, du Wort, das mir Fehlt!

          Comment

          • Barbirollians
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11669

            Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
            Music on the Brink is a concept that deserves much better than what is presently on offer. It is the kind of theme that I would suppose many of us who have been critical of R3's style in recent years would argue has the potential to bring in the new listener as well as offer insights and discussions on the European musical world in the first 14 years of the 20th century.

            Sadly, what we are given is a mish-mash of gobbets of music scattered throughout the day's offerings which has little relevance to either each other or the rest of the music in any programme (COTW excepted). What is needed is a series totally dedicated to the music of the period interspersed with a commentary placing developments within context both historical and musical. It feels and sounds like someone in the R3 back office had the idea to tack onto the general centenary acknowledgement of WW1 but couldn't be bothered to go the whole hog. Instead we have that annoying jingle with the equally annoying voice-over used on cookery programmes announcing "Music on the Brink" at random and irrelevantly.
            I agree 100% . How fascinating it might have to have a programme each on the effects on the five main participants in the war -UK,Germany, Austro-Hungary , France and Russia - and one other considering the other countries that joined in or were forced into the war like Belgium.

            Comment

            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37602

              Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
              Music on the Brink is a concept that deserves much better than what is presently on offer. It is the kind of theme that I would suppose many of us who have been critical of R3's style in recent years would argue has the potential to bring in the new listener as well as offer insights and discussions on the European musical world in the first 14 years of the 20th century.

              Sadly, what we are given is a mish-mash of gobbets of music scattered throughout the day's offerings which has little relevance to either each other or the rest of the music in any programme (COTW excepted). What is needed is a series totally dedicated to the music of the period interspersed with a commentary placing developments within context both historical and musical. It feels and sounds like someone in the R3 back office had the idea to tack onto the general centenary acknowledgement of WW1 but couldn't be bothered to go the whole hog. Instead we have that annoying jingle with the equally annoying voice-over used on cookery programmes announcing "Music on the Brink" at random and irrelevantly.
              Imagine what one of us, here on this forum, with our collective knowledge and insights into this subject, could have made of the brief, in terms of filling the schedule with informative and lively programiing and debate, possibly lasting several months! Eg:

              1) Give examples of the breakdown of diatonic tonality in the musics of Arnold Schoenberg, Bela Bartok and Erik Satie, and how in different ways these examples relate to the contemporaneous movements in the arts and sciences, eg Fauvism, Cubism, Expressionism, and psychoanalysis, Evolutionary theory and psychoanalysis, with particular bearings on the evolving social and political circumstances pertaining in the countries of birth and/or domicile of the artists and musicians concerned.

              2) As a follow-on brief for a programme series, with reference to the alleged death of grand narrative thinking in artistic and philosophical circles in the West, post 1970, consider the various manifestations of Neo-Classicism in European art and music of the 1920s and '30s in relation to inscribed notions of progress in the artistic ferment prior to World War I.

              Someone better versed than I can probably articulate the issues better than I.

              Comment

              • Serial_Apologist
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 37602

                Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                I agree 100% . How fascinating it might have to have a programme each on the effects on the five main participants in the war -UK,Germany, Austro-Hungary , France and Russia - and one other considering the other countries that joined in or were forced into the war like Belgium.


                There are so many possible perspectives from which to enrich this subject.

                Comment

                • Bax-of-Delights
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 745

                  Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                  Imagine what one of us, here on this forum, with our collective knowledge and insights into this subject, could have made of the brief, in terms of filling the schedule with informative and lively programiing and debate, possibly lasting several months! Eg:

                  1) Give examples of the breakdown of diatonic tonality in the musics of Arnold Schoenberg, Bela Bartok and Erik Satie, and how in different ways these examples relate to the contemporaneous movements in the arts and sciences, eg Fauvism, Cubism, Expressionism, and psychoanalysis, Evolutionary theory and psychoanalysis, with particular bearings on the evolving social and political circumstances pertaining in the countries of birth and/or domicile of the artists and musicians concerned.

                  2) As a follow-on brief for a programme series, with reference to the alleged death of grand narrative thinking in artistic and philosophical circles in the West, post 1970, consider the various manifestations of Neo-Classicism in European art and music of the 1920s and '30s in relation to inscribed notions of progress in the artistic ferment prior to World War I.

                  Someone better versed than I can probably articulate the issues better than I.
                  It would appear S-A that you are more than well versed!
                  O Wort, du Wort, das mir Fehlt!

                  Comment

                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37602

                    Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
                    It would appear S-A that you are more than well versed!
                    I'd take it on - expenses and taxi journeys included!

                    Comment

                    • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                      Gone fishin'
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 30163

                      Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
                      Music on the Brink is a concept that deserves much better than what is presently on offer.
                      Sums up R3 generally.

                      Very good posts from BoD, Barbie and S_A
                      [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                      Comment

                      • french frank
                        Administrator/Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 30250

                        I do think the invariable method of imposing the special content on the regular schedule each time makes it well nigh impossible to put together a coherent programme throughout an entire day or weekend.
                        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                        Comment

                        • Bax-of-Delights
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 745

                          Driving down the M4 this morning en route to an auction I was delighted and amazed to hear a COMPLETE symphony on EC. Tchaikovsky's No.1.

                          I suppose that I am driven to commenting on this shows how we have become inured to hearing just bleeding chunks on EC.

                          R.Cowan interviewing Nigel Williams yesterday made an interesting allusion to how "we in R3" are standing up for quality and cited producers, assistant producers et al - but omitted the name of RW.
                          Worm turning?
                          O Wort, du Wort, das mir Fehlt!

                          Comment

                          • french frank
                            Administrator/Moderator
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 30250

                            Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
                            R.Cowan interviewing Nigel Williams yesterday made an interesting allusion to how "we in R3" are standing up for quality and cited producers, assistant producers et al - but omitted the name of RW.
                            Worm turning?
                            Well, the cunning behind the choice of title becomes clearer.

                            R3 tweets:"Still to come on #EssentialClassics this morning, music by Padre Antonio Soler and Frank Sinatra. That's correct."

                            "Hope you enjoyed None but the Lonely Heart by Sinatra to finish off #EssentialClassics this week. @robccowan will be back on Monday at 9."

                            Well, it is a classic, probably.
                            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                            Comment

                            • Sir Velo
                              Full Member
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 3225

                              What is it with Rob Cowan's penchant for not playing anything later than the 1960s in Baroque repertoire? On Thursday we had a Bach Cantata in the Richter version when we could have had one of so many better versions informed by recent scholarship. The Richter was frankly as dull as ditchwater in extremely elderly sound.

                              The thing with Cowan is that when he plays repertoire which is clearly not his thing he falls back on those recordings from what he clearly considers to be the golden age of recording. Lovers of the baroque deserve far better than they get from R3!

                              Comment

                              • EnemyoftheStoat
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 1132

                                Originally posted by Sir Velo View Post
                                Lovers of the baroque deserve far better than they get from R3!
                                Not just lovers of the baroque.

                                Comment

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