Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[french frank]

and Suffolkcoastal we now have Roy Harris 3 - I bet he hasn't made many appearances this year.

And Vanhal's Symphony in D minor. But this isn't Essential Classics, which is the Mon-Fri version. (Though they haven't quite thrown off the weekday mindset: a 3-hour programme surely has no need to play just the 'Elvira Madigan' theme tune from Mzt's piano concerto No 21?)

[mercia]

this isn't Essential Classics, which is the Mon-Fri version

oops, my mistake, I forgot what day it was

[antongould]

And Vanhal's Symphony in D minor. But this isn't Essential Classics, which is the Mon-Fri version. (Though they haven't quite thrown off the weekday mindset: a 3-hour programme surely has no need to play just the 'Elvira Madigan' theme tune from Mzt's piano concerto No 21?)

My Ops sorry to but it has the same feel - is Rob a permanent feature here? More to the point is Harris 3 the greatest American symphony!?

[barber olly]

I tug my forelock to Mr Wright - how kind of him to sanction the playing of the odd complete work or two amongst all the dross of competitions , fatuous e-mails and Who am I segments.

Quite so, Mr Wrong needs to right his wrongs and trust Rob and Sarah to present three hours music, full, including long works and leave it to the listeners as to whether we tune in. Ditch the guests, ditch the gimmicks, maybe a dip in 'Rob's Rucksack' or 'Sarah's Satchel' are the only tinctures we need.

[Suffolkcoastal]

It's the first piece of Harris for a year. But it's always the 3rd Symphony, the 7th is a much greater work and nos 1, 5, 6 & 11 are worthwhile and there's the masterful Piano Quintet, I don't think that's been broadcast on R3 for years. Vanhal symphonies are pretty good too and we don't get enough of them either. In fact most Vanhal I've come across I've enjoyed.

[antongould]

So SC you would not agree with what, almost, sounded to be RC's view that Harris 3 is the greatest American symphony?

[Suffolkcoastal]

I think it one of the great American symphonies Anton, but I know over 200 American symphonies and there are probably around 20 or so that one would describe as great symphonies. The American Symphony is pobably one area where my knowledge is greater than RC's

[rank_and_file]

Interesting, if a little sad, to read so many intelligent music lovers thanking our presenters for the odd complete work that falls as a scrap from our master’s table, intermixed between the completely dumbed-down rubbish.

The BBC has completely forgotten what “public service broadcaster” ever meant and is now a complete disgrace and deserves to be shut down.

Not to be too negative, a revised public service broadcaster is required producing programmes that the commercial people cannot/will not do, with one television channel, two radio channels - Radio 4 and a new Third programme. If radio goes completely digital perhaps these can be subscription channels.

[french frank]

I'm puzzling over the rationale for a PSB using the metric 'cost per listener hour' at all.

1. A channel/station/programme will cost the same amount whether 10 million watch/listen or 1 million.

2. Using extremes from last year's figures, BBC One cost over £1bn pa and Radio 4 not far short of £100m. On the other hand, BBC Four cost £51m and Radio 3 £37m. Consequently, Mr A is getting a lot more spent on him if he's a BBC One/Radio 4 man than Mr B, a BBC Four/Radio 3 man even though they pay in the same amount for the right to view - and even if they spend exactly the same number of hours tuned in.

3. For commercial broadcasters cost per listener hour is important because it is a rough indication of how much public exposure the commercials are getting, how efficiently the advertising message is getting through. But that is not a consideration for a PSB.

4. Much fairer seems to me to be cost per hour - or, overall cost per annum. BBC Four, for example, costs 40% less than BBC Three, even though BBC Three is targeted on a narrow age group (entertainment &c for the 15-34s), whereas BBC Four's cultural provision is not targeted on any demographic: it is, theoretically, for anyone.

[antongould]

I think it one of the great American symphonies Anton, but I know over 200 American symphonies and there are probably around 20 or so that one would describe as great symphonies. The American Symphony is pobably one area where my knowledge is greater than RC's

It's certain that you both have masses more knowledge than I have but having just listened to 3 again on iplayer dare I say I prefer it to 7 and 9!!

[mercia]

has Mr Wright inveigled himself (can you do that?) onto Radio 4? I notice they are undergoing a schedule change from today with an extended lunchtime news, with the usual 1:30pm stuff moved to 3:00pm. I bet none of "them" (R4 listeners) voted for that.

[Suffolkcoastal]

It takes a little time Anton, I've known the 3rd symphony for 30 years and the 7th for a little less, but it was only after about 10 years of knowing the 7th and studying the score that I realised it was the greater work. The same is true for William Schuman's 3rd, it makes the biggest impact, but ultimately it is the 6th & 9th symophonies that are the better works. Incidentally Anton did you know quite a considerable amount of Harris 3 started life as a Violin Concerto for Heifetz, it still exists in piano/violin form and just really needs orchestrating. In many respects Harris was like Handel, in that he borrowed bits and pieces from his other works to help create new ones, though he is often so successful at integrating them you wouldn't be aware that he's done so! Was it the Naxos versions of 7 & 9 you were listening to Anton? You need to find the Ormandy 7 and the Albany 9 to get a real feeling for both works, though its a pity that Kubelik's 9th with the Bavarian RSO was never recorded commercially, the performance is stunning!

[mercia]

what makes a great symphony?

perhaps that needs a discussion-thread to itself

[mercia]

tee-hee ... ..... at the 9am crossover junction, Radio 4 informed me that Essential Classics on R3 would be introduced by Sarah Cowan

[Osborn]

It was correct - Sir R(obin/obert) Cowan - knighted for getting up early a lot