Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[Ein Heldenleben]

A mere footnote, but he was also a Friend of Radio 3 (as in FoR3). I had a long letter from him which ended: "I hope you can use some of this (not the 1st paragraph!)" - which was somewhat barbed.

He once described the imagined Third Programme listener as " ... a hardworking, Labour-voting schoolmaster in, say, Derby, who was interested in international theatre, new music, philosophy, politics and painting, and who listened selectively to all these things on the Third. That's what everyone believed in."

Welcome to Essential Classics.

From what Julian was saying he sounds a remarkable man with a huge range of knowledge and interests.

[Serial_Apologist]

From what Julian was saying he sounds a remarkable man with a huge range of knowledge and interests.

An important link back to Eisler, Brecht and the second Schoenberg generation, courtesy his dad, by way of the so-called Manchester School of composers in the 1950s and 60s where he was always thereafter to be seen as their father figure - our "answer" to Darmstadt of the time.

[smittims]

Well, I was close. We had Smyth, Gipps and Coleridge-Taylor during the day and no Cooke, Brian or Rawsthorne, so it was hardly the 'best' of British Music. No wonder vinteuil is diappointed. Its like having an exhibition of 'great British art' and where you expect Turner and Constable you get Jack Vettriano and Beryl Cooke.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well, I was close. We had Smyth, Gipps and Coleridge-Taylor during the day and no Cooke, Brian or Rawsthorne, so it was hardly the 'best' of British Music. No wonder vinteuil is diappointed. Its like having an exhibition of 'great British art' and where you expect Turner and Constable you get Jack Vettriano and Beryl Cooke.

It was the sad irony of Goehr only being played yesterday by virtue of his unfortunate demise that brought home to me that the selection of these pieces was not based on musical quality but a whole other series of criteria. Just the two short pieces of his played yesterday struck me as much more interesting than the relatively undemanding light and in some cases overplayed pieces throughout the day.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, I was close. We had Smyth, Gipps and Coleridge-Taylor during the day and no Cooke, Brian or Rawsthorne, so it was hardly the 'best' of British Music. No wonder vinteuil is diappointed. Its like having an exhibition of 'great British art' and where you expect Turner and Constable you get Jack Vettriano and Beryl Cooke.

[LMcD]

It was the sad irony of Goehr only being played yesterday by virtue of his unfortunate demise that brought home to me that the selection of these pieces was not based on musical quality but a whole other series of criteria. Just the two short pieces of his played yesterday struck me as much more interesting than the relatively undemanding light and in some cases overplayed pieces throughout the day.

Nottingham was 'visited' because John Barry was born there, and perhaps the theme from Goldfinger was a nod in the direction of Tiger Bay.

[oddoneout]

I realised partway through Breakfast yesterday that something was afoot and seeing that it was a daylong Music Map mash up I switched off. The arrival of MM in the April depress, sorry refresh, was a sore, but not entirely unexpected, disappointment and I had no wish for a daylong version of it. I suppose it would have been too much to expect something a bit more akin to Petroc's Peregrinations, which have been a delight, but undoubtedly are too expensive and resource-heavy. But then that's the problem isn't it - quality has a price.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I realised partway through Breakfast yesterday that something was afoot and seeing that it was a daylong Music Map mash up I switched off. The arrival of MM in the April depress, sorry refresh, was a sore, but not entirely unexpected, disappointment and I had no wish for a daylong version of it. I suppose it would have been too much to expect something a bit more akin to Petroc's Peregrinations, which have been a delight, but undoubtedly are too expensive and resource-heavy. But then that's the problem isn't it - quality has a price.

A day of British music could have been fascinating had it been structured around themes - the modal, the serial , the eccentric , the unpigeonholeable - but it was just a ragbag wasn’t it ?

[Serial_Apologist]

A day of British music could have been fascinating had it been structured around themes - the modal, the serial , the eccentric , the unpigeonholeable - but it was just a ragbag wasn’t it ?

Utterly dismal effort compared to programmes like the Andrew Motion-hosted Fairest Isle series of ca 1994/5 cross-referencing the music and poetry of British modernism under different themes: patriotism, war, mysticism, landscape, The Jazz Age, postmodernism etc, with Anthony Payne and others on hand. How lovely it would be to re-hear Sir Thomas Armstrong's two-parter reminiscing on Elgar, VW and others, or having something new of that ilk: "We felt we had to get rid of Brahms".

[LMcD]

Utterly dismal effort compared to programmes like the Andrew Motion-hosted Fairest Isle series of ca 1994/5 cross-referencing the music and poetry of British modernism under different themes: patriotism, war, mysticism, landscape, The Jazz Age, postmodernism etc, with Anthony Payne and others on hand. How lovely it would be to re-hear Sir Thomas Armstrong's two-parter reminiscing on Elgar, VW and others, or having something new of that ilk: "We felt we had to get rid of Brahms".

I'm sure I wasn't alone in expecting a selection of works referencing specific locations, such as Suffolk (Doreen Carwithen), The Solent (Vaughan Williams), Peterloo (Malcolm Arnold), Waters of Tyne (trad.) to name just a few.

[oddoneout]

I'm sure I wasn't alone in expecting a selection of works referencing specific locations, such as Suffolk (Doreen Carwithen), The Solent (Vaughan Williams), Peterloo (Malcolm Arnold), Waters of Tyne (trad.) to name just a few.

I didn't listen, but following the comments on here and having briefly looked at the playlists, I wonder if it was a case of coming up with a list of British works("everyone to Room B at 11am, we need names. Coffee and biscuits provided") from which was assembled a "Morning Schedule house-style" list(ie plenty of "safe" options and the occasional "daring" item) which was thrown at a map and tweaked to avoid too many locational clumps.
Choosing a theme of any kind would have involved a great deal more work so presumably that's why that route wasn't taken.

[oliver sudden]

the best bits of The Young Person's Guide are by Purcell...

Oh I don’t know, there’s that magnificent bit of Berlioz at the end!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I didn't listen, but following the comments on here and having briefly looked at the playlists, I wonder if it was a case of coming up with a list of British works("everyone to Room B at 11am, we need names. Coffee and biscuits provided") from which was assembled a "Morning Schedule house-style" list(ie plenty of "safe" options and the occasional "daring" item) which was thrown at a map and tweaked to avoid too many locational clumps.
Choosing a theme of any kind would have involved a great deal more work so presumably that's why that route wasn't taken.

I believe it was “curated” by Sara Mohr-Pietsch - an otherwise exemplary broadcaster who has a penchant for tenuous connections between wildly differing pieces often only connected by a word in the title. These are then “mapped” - a pretty meaningless word in musical analysis. But of course any connections based on influence , parody , shared musical structure , common harmonic sequence would be way over the heads of the audience - elitist really.

[LMcD]

I didn't listen, but following the comments on here and having briefly looked at the playlists, I wonder if it was a case of coming up with a list of British works("everyone to Room B at 11am, we need names. Coffee and biscuits provided") from which was assembled a "Morning Schedule house-style" list(ie plenty of "safe" options and the occasional "daring" item) which was thrown at a map and tweaked to avoid too many locational clumps.
Choosing a theme of any kind would have involved a great deal more work so presumably that's why that route wasn't taken.

Or possibly 'Here's a list of place names. now go away and find something - ANYTHING - that comes to mind (nothing too long, mind you!)'.

[french frank]

Or possibly 'Here's a list of place names. now go away and find something - ANYTHING - that comes to mind (nothing too long, mind you!)'.

Might be the moment to quote from A. Goehr's letter ("hope you can use some of this"):

"But just at the time when we need it most [this 2002], Radio 3 decides, for ideological reasons, to attack the integrity, vitality and variety of (in the widest sense) the domain of Classical Music in the search for popularization. It is high time Radio 3 took back its rightful position as a principal contributor to the musical life of this country and veered away from its seemingly ideocyncratic [sic, lovely!] and wayward by-paths of little interest in themselves and of even less effect."

Might send this to Sam Jackson.