Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

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  • cloughie
    Full Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 22115

    Originally posted by antongould View Post
    We have Lady Walker next week I see ……..
    The R3 super-sub - did a cracking job on In Tune recently.

    Comment

    • ardcarp
      Late member
      • Nov 2010
      • 11102

      Snakes were the topic for today's 'playlister' sequence. I'd just like to correct a bit of mis-information about the serpent, a wooden instrument often leather-covered, made in a twisty shape, hence the name. It was blown like a brass instrument, i.e. with a mouthpiece, but had finger holes, and is sometimes thought of as a bass cornetto. It was a staple of the English gallery choir and used to reinforce the bass-line. It's exact proportions were variable, but it NEVER twined around the body of the player as stated by Georgia Mann today. (The twists were merely to shorten the height of the instrument so that a long tube could be played in a sitting position.)

      There are several examples in museums ad even the occasional church in Hardy country. https://blog.laymusic.org/groups/west-gallery-quire/
      scroll down, no picture, but....

      ......from the Museum of Somerset rural life: https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Locati...t_England.html

      Photo taken by Mrs A.

      The only instrument I know which actually encircles the player's body is the much more recent Sousaphone.
      Last edited by ardcarp; 22-10-21, 14:15.

      Comment

      • Serial_Apologist
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 37602

        Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
        Snakes were the topic for today's 'playlister' sequence. I'd just like to correct a bit of mis-information about the serpent, a wooden instrument often leather-covered, made in a twisty shape, hence the name. It was blown like a brass instrument, i.e. with a mouthpiece, but had finger holes, and is sometimes thought of as a bass cornetto. It was a staple of the English gallery choir and used to reinforce the bass-line. It's exact proportions were variable, but it NEVER twined around the body of the player as stated by Georgia Mann today. (The twists were merely to shorten the height of the instrument so that a long tube could be played in a sitting position.)

        There are several examples in museums ad even the occasional church in Hardy country. https://blog.laymusic.org/groups/west-gallery-quire/
        scroll down, no picture, but....

        ......from the Museum of Somerset rural life: https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Locati...t_England.html

        Photo taken by Mrs A.

        The only instrument I know which actually encircles the player's body is the much more recent Sousaphone.
        It must have been especially difficult finding branches of acceptable twistiness for making these instruments!

        Comment

        • ardcarp
          Late member
          • Nov 2010
          • 11102

          It must have been especially difficult finding branches of acceptable twistiness for making these instruments!
          Googling for serpents throws up bizarre sites! But I found this.....

          The wood body (often walnut) is sometimes made from several fairly short pieces joined together and covered with leather; other times, glued up from two complete halves of hollowed out blocks of wood.

          Comment

          • Eine Alpensinfonie
            Host
            • Nov 2010
            • 20570

            Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
            It's exact proportions were variable, but it NEVER twined around the body of the player as stated by Georgia Mann today...


            The only instrument I know which actually encircles the player's body is the much more recent Sousaphone.
            Correct on both counts. I do wish they'd replace guesswork and assumptions with research. It's a bit like the fairly common belief that alphorns are required for the Strauss work of a similar name.

            Comment

            • cloughie
              Full Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 22115

              Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
              Googling for serpents throws up bizarre sites! But I found this.....

              The wood body (often walnut) is sometimes made from several fairly short pieces joined together and covered with leather; other times, glued up from two complete halves of hollowed out blocks of wood.
              What a wonderful title that would be for an autobigraphy or an album title!

              Comment

              • Jonathan
                Full Member
                • Mar 2007
                • 945

                Or a book for those interested in Herpetology!
                Best regards,
                Jonathan

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                • Bryn
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 24688

                  Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                  Correct on both counts. I do wish they'd replace guesswork and assumptions with research. It's a bit like the fairly common belief that alphorns are required for the Strauss work of a similar name.

                  Comment

                  • Bryn
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 24688

                    Originally posted by antongould View Post
                    We have Lady Walker next week I see ……..
                    Followed, immediately, by a repeat of George of that ilk as Composer of the week.

                    Comment

                    • underthecountertenor
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2011
                      • 1584

                      Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                      Correct on both counts. I do wish they'd replace guesswork and assumptions with research. It's a bit like the fairly common belief that alphorns are required for the Strauss work of a similar name.
                      Or that Strauss’s “Morgen!” is a song all about morning. Michael Berkeley agreed with a recent PP guest that that’s what it means, and Tom McKinney fell into the same trap a few days later.

                      Comment

                      • oddoneout
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 9145

                        Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                        Googling for serpents throws up bizarre sites! But I found this.....

                        The wood body (often walnut) is sometimes made from several fairly short pieces joined together and covered with leather; other times, glued up from two complete halves of hollowed out blocks of wood.
                        Not always wood http://www.serpentwebsite.com/CBS_gallery.htm scroll down to "American Anaconda"

                        I knew one of the London Serpent Trio's members, and knew of Christopher Monk through a friend's interest in the cornett. While a student in Kingston I was able to attend a couple of the entertaining recitals they put on.

                        Comment

                        • Nick Armstrong
                          Host
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 26523

                          Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post
                          Or that Strauss’s “Morgen!” is a song all about morning. Michael Berkeley agreed with a recent PP guest that that’s what it means, and Tom McKinney fell into the same trap a few days later.
                          That bugs me too
                          "...the isle is full of noises,
                          Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                          Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                          Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                          Comment

                          • Ein Heldenleben
                            Full Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 6754

                            Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post
                            Or that Strauss’s “Morgen!” is a song all about morning. Michael Berkeley agreed with a recent PP guest that that’s what it means, and Tom McKinney fell into the same trap a few days later.
                            Yes has a title and song ever been more replete with ambiguity ? Will it happen tomorrow ? Or is tomorrow perpetually a day away?

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                            • ardcarp
                              Late member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 11102

                              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                              Wonderful pic!

                              Comment

                              • french frank
                                Administrator/Moderator
                                • Feb 2007
                                • 30250

                                Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                                Wonderful pic!
                                But can you imagine him with it twined round his body?

                                On Strauss's Morgen, I wanted to find something about the poet and fed the first line into google. It came up with the weather forecast for Bristol
                                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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