Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[oddoneout]

A woman from Peterborough?

Don't know, I haven't looked at the list of players...
Must confess my first thought when reading MrGG's post was 'hair or playground?'

[teamsaint]

Interview with SK here

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2019/06/16/stop-obsessing-young-listeners-come-classical-music-sweet-timesays/

She seems unprepared to name the gatekeepers.

[cloughie]

Interview with SK here

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2019/06/16/stop-obsessing-young-listeners-come-classical-music-sweet-timesays/

She seems unprepared to name the gatekeepers.

She may think that young people will come to it in their own time but then is quite happy to be part of one the 3s major vehicles for peddling bleeding chunks rather than full works to attract younger listeners, and collect her money at the gate!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Interview with SK here

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2019/06/16/stop-obsessing-young-listeners-come-classical-music-sweet-timesays/

She seems unprepared to name the gatekeepers.

Lashing out at everyone else. Never a good sign.

[Serial_Apologist]

Lashing out at everyone else. Never a good sign.

From reading that link she seems to be in flat contradictions with herself.

[french frank]

Erm,

"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"
"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"

I assume that means that last quarter was better than the 3 preceding quarters (though it didn't raise last year's - 2018-19 - weekly average reach above second worst ever at 1.927m and the percentage reach as the worst ever at 3.520%, both since comparable records began in 1999).

Either by 'popularity' she meant/said 'popularism' or this was the, not unknown, total lack of factual accuracy of Radio 3.

[LMcD]

Just before I switched off, I'm sure I heard SK said that she'd got some 'absolutely fab' recordings lined up for us .....

[Zucchini]

Just before I switched off, I'm sure I heard SK said that she'd got some 'absolutely fab' recordings lined up for us .....

Aren't you interested in Edina & Patsy's choices?
I bet they're not performed by dead people like you get here.
THANKS SUZY!

[french frank]

Aren't you interested in Edina & Patsy's choices?
I bet they're not performed by dead people like you get here.
THANKS SUZY!

"The two women use their considerable financial resources to indulge in cigarettes, alcohol and recreational drugs and to chase the latest fads in an attempt to maintain their youth and recapture their glory days as Mods in swinging London." [Wikipedia]

Middle age has this effect on people?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just before I switched off, I'm sure I heard SK said that she'd got some 'absolutely fab' recordings lined up for us .....

You must remember that bullies are insecure and are desperate to impress and be liked.

And you did well to get to 9.07

[Andrew Slater]

Erm,


"The broadcaster also spoke about the growing popularity of Radio 3,"

I assume that means that last quarter was better than the 3 preceding quarters (though it didn't raise last year's - 2018-19 - weekly average reach above second worst ever at 1.927m and the percentage reach as the worst ever at 3.520%, both since comparable records began in 1999).

Either by 'popularity' she meant/said 'popularism' or this was the, not unknown, total lack of factual accuracy of Radio 3.

I've just ploughed through the podcast. To be fair, SK said in the context of people switching over from Today to Breakfast that the Breakfast figures had gone up "hugely". Admittedly as far as the most recent figures are concerned, Breakfast reach has increased by more than 12% over the last quarter and more than 8% over the last year (according to my spreadsheet).

Apparently by 'Gatekeepers' she means such people who boast in pompous terms: "oh we always go to Glyndebourne and Garsington and the Proms" and who talk about sonata form to impress people - so not necessarily all FoR3 or forum members .....

[Serial_Apologist]

I've just ploughed through the podcast. To be fair, SK said in the context of people switching over from Today to Breakfast that the Breakfast figures had gone up "hugely". Admittedly as far as the most recent figures are concerned, Breakfast reach has increased by more than 12% over the last quarter and more than 8% over the last year (according to my spreadsheet).

Apparently by 'Gatekeepers' she means such people who boast in pompous terms: "oh we always go to Glyndebourne and Garsington and the Proms" and who talk about sonata form to impress people - so not necessarily all FoR3 or forum members .....

Oh, I wouldnt be seen DEAD at Glyndebourne - so the "Gatekeepers" charge wouldn't apply to me.

[french frank]

I've just ploughed through the podcast. To be fair, SK said in the context of people switching over from Today to Breakfast that the Breakfast figures had gone up "hugely". Admittedly as far as the most recent figures are concerned, Breakfast reach has increased by more than 12% over the last quarter and more than 8% over the last year (according to my spreadsheet).

As we know, when you drill down to the figures for individual R3 programmes, these can be very volatile: with a representative statistical sample of the UK population (numbering, what? 2,500?) how many average UK people listen to Breakfast on R3? The sample may find 30. If it finds 27 the overall reach plummets, if they find 35 it skyrockets - neither of which may represent the reality.

Last quarter's Breakfast figure was 689k, which was very good. But go back 6 months and it was 579k - very poor. In Q1 2016 it was 689k, the same as last quarter, and the following quarter it was 751k. Eighteen months ago it was 566k. The figures say as much about the quarterly sample as about the R3 audience …

Apparently by 'Gatekeepers' she means such people who boast in pompous terms: "oh we always go to Glyndebourne and Garsington and the Proms"

Subjective: 'boast', 'pompous' - is it possible to impart the information to someone else without them thinking it's boastful and pompous? (Must be the circles she moves in: I've never met anyone who claimed to go to Glyndebourne or Garsington, boastfully and pompously or not). CBH used the same word to designate classical music lovers who objected to 'dumbing down' - though she didn't quite put it that way. Why would any normal human classical music lover not want others to be introduced to it? It's a weasely comment to make a not very sound point.

and who talk about sonata form to impress people - so not necessarily all FoR3 or forum members .....

Again: how do you judge whether someone is saying it in order to impress?

[Zucchini]

As we know, when you drill down to the figures for individual R3 programmes, these can be very volatile: with a representative statistical sample of the UK population (numbering, what? 2,500?) how many average UK people listen to Breakfast on R3? The sample may find 30. If it finds 27 the overall reach plummets, if they find 35 it skyrockets - neither of which may represent the reality ...

I've explained the sampling to you more than once and you still don't get it!

Approx 25,000 people contribute one week's data each quarter (evenly spread across 13 wks). 3.7% of them listened to Radio 3 during their week.

That is a 900 sample representing 2040k total listeners. Breakfast sample is 300+ representing about 700k listeners

[Andrew Slater]

The sample may find 30. If it finds 27 the overall reach plummets, if they find 35 it skyrockets - neither of which may represent the reality.

Yes - a change of one sampled listener a week on average (or 13 over the quarter) makes a difference to the average weekly reach figure of about 29000. The average weekly breakfast listeners sampled in the last quarter is 23.69, or 308 over the quarter.

Last quarter's Breakfast figure was 689k, which was very good. But go back 6 months and it was 579k - very poor. In Q1 2016 it was 689k, the same as last quarter, and the following quarter it was 751k. Eighteen months ago it was 566k. The figures say as much about the quarterly sample as about the R3 audience …

Yes, the figures are up-and-down, but what she was saying (in isolation) wasn't actually wrong, although based on low samples. In context the Today audience on R4 is more than ten times that of Breakfast on R3. (Today is 1/2 hour longer than Breakfast, so it will pick up more listeners anyway, but the difference won't be that significant.)

Subjective: 'boast', 'pompous' - is it possible to impart the information to someone else without them thinking it's boastful and pompous? (Must be the circles she moves in: I've never met anyone who claimed to go to Glyndebourne or Garsington, boastfully and pompously or not). CBH used the same word to designate classical music lovers who objected to 'dumbing down' - though she didn't quite put it that way.
Again: how do you judge whether someone is saying it in order to impress?

'boast' and 'pompous' and impressing were my interpretations of the way she impersonated the people. But the two other people on the podcast agreed with her that that kind of person put them off classical music - so there must be a perception (right or wrong - I think wrong) that these people exist and are trying to keep outsiders out. I think it's bound up with a fear of not knowing what 'they' know - this was mentioned in the podcast, with SK firmly saying (quite rightly) they they didn't need to know anything to enjoy the music.

Why would any normal human classical music lover not want others to be introduced to it? It's a weasely comment to make a not very sound point.

Precisely. Apart from a few exceptions perhaps it's mostly a case of misperception. I wonder if asking R3 to play whole pieces is considered 'gatekeeperish' and off-putting on the basis of that the complainant has the knowledge that there are further movements - whereas the reality is that the knowledge simply comes from repeated hearings and single movements are jolting because the brain automatically expects more?