Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

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  • vinteuil
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 12793

    Originally posted by french frank View Post
    The thought always occurs to me: if it isn't from some 1960s Western, it ought to be. Sounds like it should be entitled 'The Big Country' or something similar.
    ... exactly my thinking.

    .

    Comment

    • Serial_Apologist
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 37602

      Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
      ... exactly my thinking.

      .
      It has been said that that particular theme was the big influence on later composers of music for Westerns - but I can't now remember by whom. Incidentally, that same music professor had never heard of Henri Sauguet...

      Comment

      • Stanfordian
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 9309

        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
        It has been said that that particular theme was the big influence on later composers of music for Westerns - but I can't now remember by whom. Incidentally, that same music professor had never heard of Henri Sauguet...
        Some years ago there was Christmas Quiz on Radio 3 or 4 and Stephen Bishop-Kovacevich was asked to name a piece of music. Not only did he get it wrong, it was a recording of him playing it!

        Comment

        • Alain Maréchal
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 1286

          Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
          these once worthy pieces
          Was the Copland ever worthy?

          Comment

          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
            - the famous pentatonic melody - was played from The Wasps overture
            Isn't it a Whole-Tone melody?
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

            Comment

            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
              Gone fishin'
              • Sep 2011
              • 30163

              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
              Isn't it a Whole-Tone melody?
              Oh! Beg yer pudding - it's a Whole-Tone antecedent with a pentatonic consequent. My bad!
              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

              Comment

              • Serial_Apologist
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 37602

                Originally posted by Stanfordian View Post
                Some years ago there was Christmas Quiz on Radio 3 or 4 and Stephen Bishop-Kovacevich was asked to name a piece of music. Not only did he get it wrong, it was a recording of him playing it!

                Comment

                • Eine Alpensinfonie
                  Host
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 20570

                  Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                  Oh! Beg yer pudding - it's a Whole-Tone antecedent with a pentatonic consequent. My bad!
                  It depends upon which melody you mean. One is almost whole-tome, while the following one is almost pentatonic.

                  Comment

                  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                    Gone fishin'
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 30163

                    Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                    It depends upon which melody you mean. One is almost whole-tome, while the following one is almost pentatonic.
                    Pom pi-Dom pi pompi pompi, Pom pi-dom pi diddleiddle pom (whole-tone)
                    Pom Pom pi-dom pi pom pi pom etc (pentatonic - it's the boldened D natural on "Pom" that stops it being entirely whole-tone, and turns it pentatonic).
                    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                    Comment

                    • Eine Alpensinfonie
                      Host
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 20570

                      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                      Pom pi-Dom pi pompi pompi, Pom pi-dom pi diddleiddle pom (whole-tone)
                      Pom Pom pi-dom pi pom pi pom etc (pentatonic - it's the boldened D natural on "Pom" that stops it being entirely whole-tone, and turns it pentatonic).
                      Absolutely right.

                      Comment

                      • Serial_Apologist
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 37602

                        RVW was influenced by Debussy at that time: the Scherzo movement of the Sea Symphony, the last section to be completed, contains a swirling whole-tone passage that is clearly borrowed from the middle movement of "La mer".

                        Comment

                        • MrGongGong
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 18357

                          Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                          Absolutely right.
                          A perfect example of uni-intervalic-non-heirachical-pan-diatonicism

                          (gets coat.... )

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37602

                            Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                            A perfect example of uni-intervalic-non-heirachical-pan-diatonicism

                            (gets coat.... )
                            To understand which, you don't have to be a PANtheist.

                            Comment

                            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                              Gone fishin'
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 30163

                              Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                              A perfect example of uni-intervalic-non-heirachical-pan-diatonicism

                              (gets coat.... )


                              But it's in these subtle ways that RVW takes and mixes varieties of pre-existing materials in highly individual ways that makes him such an interesting composer for me. It would be very foolish for anyone to presume what he's going to do - and yet the results of these unusal uses sound "natural" and absolutely "right", so that a careless listening [cf # 3651] might easily miss the elaborations going on.
                              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                              Comment

                              • Bax-of-Delights
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 745

                                Originally posted by Bax-of-Delights View Post
                                My one fervent wish is that all recordings of Copland's ballet scores, Billy the Kid and Rodeo, should be locked away in a BBC vault and marked "do not open until 2025". They could join VW's "Wasps" overture and Arnold's "Padstow Lifeboat" in a justified musical purdah.
                                When there are literally tens of thousands of other unheard pieces it seems like lazy programming in the extreme to constantly parade these once worthy pieces to the point where regular listeners groan and reach for the off switch.
                                To which I would add “Appalachian Spring”.
                                Now playing.
                                Again.
                                O Wort, du Wort, das mir Fehlt!

                                Comment

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