Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[french frank]

I wonder if he's a non-reader like his Dad.

But, please mark that Radio 3 erroneously credited James McCartney instead of James McCarthy for the oratorio (excerpt) on Alan Turing

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But, please mark that Radio 3 erroneously credited James McCartney instead of James McCarthy for the oratorio (excerpt) on Alan Turing

It would be ironic if that was a computer error.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Could she be replaced by an Amazon-robot making sure that every other 'track' she gives us her name, the platform, the programme, the ways you can replay it?

Naaah! Amazon robots would call every track a "song".

[french frank]

It would be ironic if that was a computer error.

I think they're always computer errors, but if there were any quality control …

This is is one of the examples where technology does NOT suit Radio 3: others being the computerisation that rolls up the works as they're played, instead of giving us an advance playlist; and even the iPlayer which makes it more difficult to have overruns and programmes which have slightly longer durations from week to week, depending on content. I imagine even the playout systems are put together by technicians rather than presenters, so when presenters get things right but the technicians make a mistake it's egg on face for the presenter! How much better to have a malfunctioning CD player, with a reserve machine to hand - and too bad if the programme overruns slightly. Would that really be such a loss compared with the current technology-driven content?

[Andrew Slater]

I think they're always computer errors, but if there were any quality control …

This is is one of the examples where technology does NOT suit Radio 3: others being the computerisation that rolls up the works as they're played, instead of giving us an advance playlist; and even the iPlayer which makes it more difficult to have overruns and programmes which have slightly longer durations from week to week, depending on content. I imagine even the playout systems are put together by technicians rather than presenters, so when presenters get things right but the technicians make a mistake it's egg on face for the presenter! How much better to have a malfunctioning CD player, with a reserve machine to hand - and too bad if the programme overruns slightly. Would that really be such a loss compared with the current technology-driven content?

I found some guidelines here which suggest the entry process is manual, and quite onerous. (Note the bit about checking for typos!)

I suspect that the building option for the playlist is chosen editorially: Words and Music routinely issues the playlist in advance, whether it's a repeat or not. I'll see if I can find any evidence in other guidance pages.

You might like to look around the site covering BBC data entry guidelines: it includes editorial guidance for classical items.

[french frank]

Thanks for that, Andrew. Will study. I don't think entry can be 100% manual, as there are still cases where Cyrillic or Chinese characters are entered for the performer details. I came across an example a couple of days ago when I was checking, and I hardly ever do check now.

Can't find it for the moment, but it's clear someone does sometimes go through and correct manually (e.g. McCartney/McCarthy - was that mistake human or computer error? It was presumably corrected by a human being ).

I found some guidelines here which suggest the entry process is manual, and quite onerous. (Note the bit about checking for typos!)

I suspect that the building option for the playlist is chosen editorially: Words and Music routinely issues the playlist in advance, whether it's a repeat or not. I'll see if I can find any evidence in other guidance pages.

You might like to look around the site covering BBC data entry guidelines: it includes editorial guidance for classical items.

[french frank]

And also - I'd assumed the playlist was automated in some way to explain the dripfeed of music played. If it's all done manually why can't they just publish the advance playlist? The Music Brainz links seem to generate automatically - and they can be wrong - eg Ethel Smith, the wurlitzer Wunderkind, for Ethel Smyth.

[Andrew Slater]

Yes - it seems that the MusicBrainz link is brought in by a lookup at editing time, but the default can be changed: it's a matter of how much care is taken, I suppose. No doubt people are under pressure to complete these listings, so it's not surprising that mistakes slip in.

[oddoneout]

It would be ironic if that was a computer error.

'Garbage in, garbage out' as I learnt 40 or so years ago in connection with the 'computer error' cop out.....

[Andrew Slater]

I've just opened an account with MusicBrainz. Searching on 'James Mccart' brings up the two people mentioned up-thread in adjacent positions in the list - very easy to click on the wrong one:

Score Name Sort Name Type Gender Area Begin Begin Area End End Area
100 James McCarthy (choir director) McCarthy, James Person Male
99 James McCartney (Paul McCartney's son) McCartney, James Person Male United Kingdom 1977-09-12 London

[oddoneout]

others being the computerisation that rolls up the works as they're played, instead of giving us an advance playlist;

I could better accept the lack of an advance playlist if the scrolling ''playing now' actually kept up with what's playing now. I find it irritating to have to keep checking back if I want to find out what a piece is as the gizmo doesn't come up until it's well underway(or on occasion been and gone). I think I've asked before on here, but is there any good reason why it isn't synchronised? At least I know when the script and the music are adrift - not so good for those perhaps new to this game or with a smaller 'back catalogue' to check against?

[Andrew Slater]

I've been looking into the operation of the playlists over the last few days with a view to getting my online retrospective playlists page working again. (It stopped working in April thanks to changes in the BBC web pages.) I've been looking to see if I can find any playlists produced in advance (to no avail so far). If I do manage to find them (legally!) I'll publish them in advance on my schedule listings pages.

[french frank]

I've been looking into the operation of the playlists over the last few days with a view to getting my online retrospective playlists page working again. (It stopped working in April thanks to changes in the BBC web pages.) I've been looking to see if I can find any playlists produced in advance (to no avail so far). If I do manage to find them (legally!) I'll publish them in advance on my schedule listings pages.

To oddoneout: for many (of us) the importance of the advance playlist is to give us the requisite information to decide whether the programme is worth listening to in the first place, not to tell us what's being played when it's being broadcast. This may be the answer: in most cases if one could see the playlist in advance one wouldn't bother We don't have to listen to the radio, just because it's 9.30am.

[oddoneout]

To oddoneout: for many (of us) the importance of the advance playlist is to give us the requisite information to decide whether the programme is worth listening to in the first place, not to tell us what's being played when it's being broadcast. This may be the answer: in most cases if one could see the playlist in advance one wouldn't bother We don't have to listen to the radio, just because it's 9.30am.

Indeed and I was not intending to imply that the advance list was was unnecessary or dispensable; I have in the past been engaged in debate on this matter since I'm also on the side of preferring the availability of advance information,to use or not depending on the circumstances. I was grumbling at the 'playing now' being in arrears as well as the playlist so even if the computer is on when I'm listening to the radio I still end up having to scribble a note to check the piece at some later stage - radio's not digital so no display at that end.

[french frank]

Indeed and I was not intending to imply that the advance list was was unnecessary or dispensable; I have in the past been engaged in debate on this matter since I'm also on the side of preferring the availability of advance information,to use or not depending on the circumstances. I was grumbling at the 'playing now' being in arrears as well as the playlist so even if the computer is on when I'm listening to the radio I still end up having to scribble a note to check the piece at some later stage - radio's not digital so no display at that end.