Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[Richard Tarleton]

Furthermore, bullying the audience isn't going to work. She tried that when she called us "snobs" pre-Ibiza Night, before anyone had said anything.

Indeed. Thinking about Transactional Analysis for a moment, what is happening is that Suzy Klein (I really hope she reads this, or that somebody sees it and tells her) addresses her audience in relentlessly Parent→Child or Child→Child mode, which only works if the audience is in Child mode. Most Forumites on this thread want to be addressed by Radio 3 presenters in Adult→Adult mode, and addressing adults in Parent→Child mode simply misfires. SK's bossy persona is becoming insufferable.

[french frank]

Indeed. Thinking about Transactional Analysis for a moment, what is happening is that Suzy Klein (I really hope she reads this, or that somebody sees it and tells her) addresses her audience in relentlessly Parent→Child or Child→Child mode, which only works if the audience is in Child mode. Most Forumites on this thread want to be addressed by Radio 3 presenters in Adult→Adult mode, and addressing adults in Parent→Child mode simply misfires. SK's bossy persona is becoming insufferable.

Come on Richard, keep up the email pressure - you know it works!

[Richard Tarleton]

Come on Richard, keep up the email pressure - you know it works!

Dear Suzy.......

[oddoneout]

She got her retaliation in first today by warning us at the outset that ‘the rest of the symphony’ was not an acceptable answer.
We’ve got under teacher’s skin.

That gave me a much needed chuckle this morning - she certainly sounded a tad irritated.

[oddoneout]

Soon they'll be giving us a multiple choice list of acceptable answers.

Oh, wait! They've already done that with the recent "vote for an opera".

Well the suggestions the presenter makes could be viewed as a form of multiple choice. The question isn't just 'what could follow that', it comes with all sorts of signposting as to mood, voice/instrumental, contrast/similar, theme....

[oddoneout]

Indeed. Thinking about Transactional Analysis for a moment, what is happening is that Suzy Klein (I really hope she reads this, or that somebody sees it and tells her) addresses her audience in relentlessly Parent→Child or Child→Child mode, which only works if the audience is in Child mode. Most Forumites on this thread want to be addressed by Radio 3 presenters in Adult→Adult mode, and addressing adults in Parent→Child mode simply misfires. SK's bossy persona is becoming insufferable.

And even for the actual and intended audience I suspect that not all like being treated that way either.

[oddoneout]

i've heard R3 is doing or planning work with universities - on the lines of the mixtape (which seemingly even they aren't entirely satisfied with) to stimulate interest in classical music. What form that might take I've no idea..

Perhaps it'll be broadcast in halls and the canteen....
Back in the day I was fortunate to attend an institution which had a full programme of all kinds of music across the 3 main campuses at different times and days of the week, the majority free to listen, and not primarily for the benefit of the music students. I think I did my bit to introduce some of my fellow students(I wasn't studying music so neither were they)to other forms of music by taking part in some of the short lunchtime drop-in(and out) performances - they came to see what I was up to in my spare time and several were sufficiently intrigued to try some of the other offerings and also ask about what else they could listen to. The fact that the hall was on the main thoroughfare through the building made it easy to loiter and listen, and what was being performed often neither looked nor sounded like 'classical' music, which reduced the scaring -off factor.
The flashmob type approach can also be a good way of getting the music to the people - seeing musicians performing is more interesting for many than just hearing what they are playing.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I requested the "other" movements from the Gadfly Suite as a companion piece. I expect to be blocked soon, but if you don't try ...

[Stanfordian]

I requested the "other" movements from the Gadfly Suite as a companion piece. I expect to be blocked soon, but if you don't try ...

You're spoiling the game! Shame on you! Why on earth would anyone want to hear a complete piece of music? It will never do!

It makes one wonder what is being curated here?

[Serial_Apologist]

You're spoiling the game! Shame on you! Why on earth would anyone want to hear a complete piece of music? It will never do!

It makes one wonder what is being curated here?

I'm sure if composers intended having their works decimated in this way, and served up as "samples", they'd have inserted a codicil in their wills to this effect...

[french frank]

I'm sure if composers intended having their works decimated in this way, and served up as "samples", they'd have inserted a codicil in their wills to this effect...

What one would welcome is an explanation as to why there is a preference for playing truncated pieces rather whole works. Like, Why are you doing it? Why is that preferable to playing whole works? Explain in simple language.

[doversoul1]

What one would welcome is an explanation as to why there is a preference for playing truncated pieces rather whole works. Like, Why are you doing it? Why is that preferable to playing whole works? Explain in simple language.

It could be that that is what they do there, whoever they are. That’s how you play CDs. Who wants to hear one ‘track’ after another from the same CD on the radio…. ?

[Bryn]

I wonder if there might have been pressure from record companies to restrict the playing of whole works from commercial releases? With the iPlayer offering its 'HD Sound', home 'taping' of whole works might be seen as hitting their sales. Quite a few record companies refuse to permit streaming of their products via services such as QOBUZ, while sales of downloads are permitted.

[Serial_Apologist]

What one would welcome is an explanation as to why there is a preference for playing truncated pieces rather whole works. Like, Why are you doing it? Why is that preferable to playing whole works? Explain in simple language.

Because they discovered, by isolating for example the Adagietto from Mahler's Fifth, and using it as a Leitmotif throughout, it could make Death in Venice a saleable movie proposition, perhaps. It got people into the habit of decontextualisation, or rather of not needing to bother with an artist's original meaning, thus complying with Walter Benjamin's theories on reproduction as a subliminal prop of consumerism - (Cf The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reprduction). And just think of the royalities Mahler might have accrued, had he still been around...

[french frank]

It could be that that is what they do there, whoever they are. That’s how you play CDs. Who wants to hear one ‘track’ after another from the same CD on the radio…. ?

But that wouldn't be any kind of explanation: it's just an assertion. I don't feel that Radio 3 is peopled with musical ignoramuses who only know about playing pop music.

I would, presumptuously, volunteer a reason for RW: 'because we're trying to attract listeners who know very little about classical music and who have short attention spans. Playing anything longer than 10 minutes will tire them out and they'll go away and not come back. And they are more important to us than YOU are.' But the question would remain: why don't you answer the question (because if that is the answer, the last thing you'll do is admit it)? Do you have a public reason you can give?

I'm not sure that the pressure from record companies fully explains it: there are plenty of works which even at 'full-length' don't fill a whole CD. And if that were the reason, why not just say so?