Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[Stanfordian]

But … in my view this is mainly about the temperament of the individual listener. Yes, like you, I hate it. And the very things which I appreciated about Radio 3 were the things that Radio 3 has been surgically removing because other listeners didn't like what they thought of as over formal, stiff, stodgy, too serious. There are people who enjoy the brainteasers. And they'll enjoy whatever interactive gimmick it replaces. And they'll love - and hate - the new presenters.

The argument has to be on a level which isn't based on personality (listeners' as well as presenters'). Radio 3 has to be clear what the audience which it wants to target is like, admit that those who don't like it won't be listening, and decide what is best for Radio 3 (and the BBC) based on some pretty clearly defined criteria. If it wants to attract 'the broad audience', it must accept that many classical music lovers will be pushed out.

Hiya french frank,

I totally agree!

[Dudelsack]

Re: Who is NK. I have corrected to SK. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

There is, however, an interesting question to be asked about exactly WHO and WHAT the members of the R3 family of presenters are. The channel seems to me to be becoming a form of reality soap opera, a genre which has traditionally been there to create an imagined community which parallels, or for some people is a substitute for, a 'real' family; one which, human nature being what it is, you all too often love to hate. Instead of soap actors whose latest scandals and ability or otherwise to act occupy tabloids and web fora, R3 in casting its principal performers has gone down the sub-celeb route - there are notable exceptions but, as witness the departure of JJ and JS from Sundays, I wouldn't bank on their long term survival - and as in all reality shows have created these presenters as a family of contrasting but lazy stereotypes. Dependent on your point of view they are annoyingly lovable or just plain annoying. I imagine a street somewhere towards the east of the metropolis - as a Scot this is terra incognita to me - being 'hipstered' in which older residents are there to add a little local colour and tension to the new aspirational arrivals. So RC is the slightly embarrassing 'grandad dancing' figure who has a heart of gold and a garden shed where he keeps all manner of things past their sell by date 'in case they might come in useful', SW the enthusiastic girl next door who loves playing in the school orchestra but has lots of good friends who don't share her love of classical music but do like the fact that 'she's a jolly good sport and jolly good at hockey', SK is, as a previous poster has astutely noted, is a 'yummy mummy' who has recently moved in and is determined to speed up the gentrification of what she now regards as HER street by passive aggressive moves on people who won't repaint their front doors in nice Farrow and Ball colours to match hers, while CB-H and KD ... oh no, I can't go on. Throw them all together, accept that listeners will, if they are at all affluent, have their own CD collections and streaming services which will allow them to 'curate' - hateful word - their own 'listening experience' - thanks, BeebSpeak - and you have an emerging R3 service which serves its virtual community with characters and voices rather than with serious listening and serious comment. I am reminded of the time long since when a piece of music 'crashed' the pips and the late, great Tom Crowe apologised saying that he hoped that the music had not spoilt listeners' enjoyment of the pips. Substitute at least some of the current band of brothers and sisters for the pips and just hope that the music didn't spoil your enjoyment of their performances.

Listening to James Jolly's recent farewell I thought that I detected a catch in his voice on his last word. I think that many of us felt the same.

[LMcD]

In my (very humble) opinion, Sarah Walker comes across as a knowledgeable friend, whereas SK comes across as an I- know-it-all-and-don't-even-THINK-of-contradicting-me school mistress.
I fully share Dudelsack's views on James Jolly's farewell.

[Nick Armstrong]

RC is the slightly embarrassing 'grandad dancing' figure who has a heart of gold and a garden shed where he keeps all manner of things past their sell by date 'in case they might come in useful', SW the enthusiastic girl next door who loves playing in the school orchestra but has lots of good friends who don't share her love of classical music but do like the fact that 'she's a jolly good sport and jolly good at hockey', SK is, as a previous poster has astutely noted, is a 'yummy mummy' who has recently moved in and is determined to speed up the gentrification of what she now regards as HER street by passive aggressive moves on people who won't repaint their front doors in nice Farrow and Ball colours to match hers, while CB-H and KD ... oh no, I can't go on.

to 'curate' - hateful word

(... off-puttingly prevalent in the new season LSO concert Listings where Adès, Grime, Birtwistle, Knussen etc etc are billed as "curating" all sorts of things )

[Ein Heldenleben]

It strikes me that one of the unquestionable benefits of the changes is that it encourages "lurkers" like Dudelsack to break cover. As a fellow appreciator of the quality of JJ and JS you are doubly welcome. Isn't part of the "magic " of radio having a well-informed presenter ( and obviously producer ) making intelligent choices of interesting performances of music with which one may not be familiar and then styling a well written , thoughtful intro and outro? Strikes me that JJ and JS had pretty much mastered this....

[Dudelsack]

SK comes across as an I- know-it-all-and-don't-even-THINK-of-contradicting-me school mistress.

Yes indeed, LMcD. Her graceless put down (Wed 13th @ 1"53" on iPlayer) of listeners who had pointed out that she had misattributed L'Arlésienne to Berlioz was revealing, and her naming of one listener in withering terms was downright nasty. When she said airily dismissively, 'Bizet, Berlioz, Beethoven, Brahms, Bach: it's very confusing this job' it was clear that what she sees as 'the little people' who sought to correct her could have no understanding of how the rules did not, and should not, apply to her. It was that remark that first set the alarm bells ringing for me. Heaven only knows how the new show will sound with RC, but I now, as perhaps not in the recent past, will welcome hearing his more emollient tones.

I am reminding myself of the cautionary words of Belloc:
'And always keep a-hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.'

[french frank]

Well, listening to that clip (thanks Dudels), um, all I can say is that as far as Radio 3 is concerned she's possibly in a new role - interacting wiv da peeps - which she hasn't had before; and a mistake is to be flippant. It's the 'tweet' fault of thinking you can come out with anything, just as it occurs to you - this is lean-back radio. Hey chill.

You make a mistake: "Well, as many of you have pointed out, that was Bizet's version of L'Arlésienne, rather than the one by Berlioz as I said at the beginning; so thank you to the many listeners who texted in."

[PS Just not my kind of programme, so I don't think I've ever heard a complete programme in 10 years.]

Yes indeed, LMcD. Her graceless put down (Wed 13th @ 1"53" on iPlayer) of listeners who had pointed out that she had misattributed L'Arlésienne to Berlioz was revealing, and her naming of one listener in withering terms was downright nasty. When she said airily dismissively, 'Bizet, Berlioz, Beethoven, Brahms, Bach: it's very confusing this job' it was clear that what she sees as 'the little people' who sought to correct her could have no understanding of how the rules did not, and should not, apply to her. It was that remark that first set the alarm bells ringing for me. Heaven only knows how the new show will sound with RC, but I now, as perhaps not in the recent past, will welcome hearing his more emollient tones.

I am reminding myself of the cautionary words of Belloc:
'And always keep a-hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.'

[Nick Armstrong]

Her graceless put down (Wed 13th @ 1"53" on iPlayer) of listeners who had pointed out that she had misattributed L'Arlésienne to Berlioz was revealing, and her naming of one listener in withering terms was downright nasty.

Just listened - yes, unpleasant tone to the "lots of you, of course, have said..." plus the sarcastic "thank you very much...". Graceless is the word...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Honestly - I really don't want to "attack" presenters personally, but what with the "snobs", the "young deer", AND the "Berlioz's L'Arlesienne - what, exactly, is the purpose of this woman???

[teamsaint]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/my-perfect-weekend/10771993/My-perfect-weekend-Suzy-Klein-presenter.html

[teamsaint]

Honestly - I really don't want to "attack" presenters personally, but what with the "snobs", the "young deer", AND the "Berlioz's L'Arlesienne - what, exactly, is the purpose of this woman???

Well somebody at the BBC must think she is what the public want. Aspiration to well paid uselessness .


Out of touch with vast swathes of the population is the nicest way I can think of describing that. On second thoughts, probably more in touch than I care to believe.....

[french frank]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cele...presenter.html

Best show on the radio? Zane Lowe on Radio 1 (Curiously, Radio 1's target audience is the 15-29 year olds).

FIVE FAVOURITE THINGS?

Radio 3 on in the background […]

[teamsaint]

Best show on the radio? Zane Lowe on Radio 1 (Curiously, Radio 1's target audience is the 15-29 year olds).

FIVE FAVOURITE THINGS?

Radio 3 on in the background […]

Hmmmmm...

Is it just me that worries about being a target audience ?

[Stanfordian]

Yes indeed, LMcD. Her graceless put down (Wed 13th @ 1"53" on iPlayer) of listeners who had pointed out that she had misattributed L'Arlésienne to Berlioz was revealing, and her naming of one listener in withering terms was downright nasty. When she said airily dismissively, 'Bizet, Berlioz, Beethoven, Brahms, Bach: it's very confusing this job' it was clear that what she sees as 'the little people' who sought to correct her could have no understanding of how the rules did not, and should not, apply to her. It was that remark that first set the alarm bells ringing for me. Heaven only knows how the new show will sound with RC, but I now, as perhaps not in the recent past, will welcome hearing his more emollient tones.

I am reminding myself of the cautionary words of Belloc:
'And always keep a-hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.'

Hiya Dudelsack,

The gaps in poeple's knowledge often surprises me. Not too long ago I was interviewing Donald Runnicles in his office at Deutsche Oper Berlin and whilst discussing Bernstein's stage works that I realised he had never heard of Bernstein's 'Wonderful Town'.

[Serial_Apologist]

Hiya Dudelsack,

The gaps in poeple's knowledge often surprises me. Not too long ago I was interviewing Donald Runnicles in his office at Deutsche Oper Berlin and I realised he had never heard of Bernstein's 'Wonderful Town'.

Lucky him!