Essential Classics - The Continuing Debate

[Roehre]

Well I for one do, and with over 1000 audio cassettes to prove the case against Mr Wright and his cronies I feel extraordinarily privileged to have lived through those years and learned so much that I almost feel myself to be a mine of information on 20th century music, in particular.

As I do

[french frank]

As I have commented before I feel there is a tendency to confuse discussion on the changes that happened recently i.e. Rob Cowan to Essential Classics with changes that happened in 2006/7(?) or gradually even earlier.

The arrival of Breakfast in February 2007 marked a lurch "down" [sic] in the style and there was non-stop criticism right from that time (as the title you gave to the Breakfast thread here shows). The latest changes are a further lurch away from catering for the complaining listeners and towards attracting the new listeners 'with little knowledge of classical music'. There is no confusion about that. From bad, things have got worse.

There was an element again IMHO of rubbishing Essential Classics before a note had been broadcast which I and others commented on.

This derived from that the fact that long before the programme aired we knew what its aim was because it was in the commissioning brief. We knew that, again, it was being aimed at attracting 'new' listeners. The 'rubbishing' went no further than pointing out that fact. When the programme eventually began, it proved to be exactly what was commissioned by the BBC, with guests, listener interaction &c. So if there was any 'rubbishing' in advance, it was justified.

Old Grumpy's response to my post on an improvement in the Morning Schedule said to 09.00 the music was much the same - I agree and I would say that the music both in variety and length of piece from 09.00 to 12.00 is better thanit was before the recent changes.

You have ignored my remark to Old Grumpy - namely that although he said he agreed with you, he picked up on all the things people have been grumbling about and said he didn't like them either.

The Music: You and Old Grumpy both seem to be confused. The main differences since the recent changes have been in the style and non-musical content - news and weather snippets every 15 minute, the phone-ins, the intellectual level of the topics (smells, first names, pairing of wines with music). No one that I am aware has claimed that there was an abrupt change in the music after these changes. But there has been a gradual change especially since 2007 - Suffolkcoastal has monitored it and many others have noticed it. All I can gather from what you say is that you are comparing this autumn's choice of music, post the changes, with the music just before that; and that you haven't noticed any difference. Well, you wouldn't if you're only considering that short time.

Breakfast - for/with all its sins - will have been with us for 5 years this coming February. It always was intended as a 'primary entry point for new listeners' even though I don't think this was put into words in public documents for two or three years after its introduction.

[You will note btw that I specfically exempted you personally from telling anyone to shove off or forcing your preferences on anyone. You are a model of patience and restraint ]

[Bax-of-Delights]

In truth - and it pains me to admit this - I tune in less and less to R3 these days. Perhaps its an age thing but whenever I do turn on R3 I have heard whatever is playing hundreds of times before. I've just looked at the Essential Classics playlist for this morning and find
Ma Vlast
Chrysanthemums
Erlkonig
Mozart: Oboe Quartet
Brahms: Violin Concerto (one movement)
Vivaldi: Mandolin concerto


What I crave is a radio station that is vigorous in its devotion to the arts and does not compromise for the sake of garnering a "wider audience" (i.e. be seen to be "excluding" anyone). What we get is a station that is close to becoming the equivalent of magnolia paint. It's there but no-one really takes much notice of it. It will "do".

[DracoM]

One of the only places on R3 where I can be assured of finding something new, a refreshment for the ear, are Late Junction and Hear and Now. I now regularly access online classical stations worldwide eg WQXR where I am fairly sure that daily innovative takes on the classical music field ancient and modern will await. R3 has for the most part sold out to the trite, tried and tested, daily gallops for the warhorses in terms of content, and to R2 in terms of presentation. It is such a wretched betrayal of a whole generation and culture.

How Lord Patten can live with himself knowing the piecemeal dismantling of R3 the BBC is at work on with the Trust's active nay sycophantic support I do not know.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

well he got used to that sort of thing in Hong Kong ... dismantling etc ...

[EdgeleyRob]

In truth - and it pains me to admit this - I tune in less and less to R3 these days. Perhaps its an age thing but whenever I do turn on R3 I have heard whatever is playing hundreds of times before. I've just looked at the Essential Classics playlist for this morning and find
Ma Vlast
Chrysanthemums
Erlkonig
Mozart: Oboe Quartet
Brahms: Violin Concerto (one movement)
Vivaldi: Mandolin concerto


What I crave is a radio station that is vigorous in its devotion to the arts and does not compromise for the sake of garnering a "wider audience" (i.e. be seen to be "excluding" anyone). What we get is a station that is close to becoming the equivalent of magnolia paint. It's there but no-one really takes much notice of it. It will "do".

What winds me up is why oh why only one movement of the Brahms! A day off for me today so I tuned in to diet radio 3 this morning.It was soon switched of and I started rummaging through my cds instead.It seems essential classics is almost as poor as breakfast.All IMHO of course.

[amcluesent]

Yep, I'd have expected Patten to have more diverse, not to say catholic, tastes.

[EdgeleyRob]

At least we still have the lunchtime concerts which I usually catch on listen again due to work.
Looking forward to todays offering. I don't know the Sibelius at all and he is a bit of a blind spot for me so I will listen with interest.

[barber olly]

What winds me up is why oh why only one movement of the Brahms! A day off for me today so I tuned in to diet radio 3 this morning.It was soon switched of and I started rummaging through my cds instead.It seems essential classics is almost as poor as breakfast.All IMHO of course.

Quite, why on a three-hour programme even with guests there is surely time for the full work, if not then redesign the programme. Diet Rado 3 is a stupid name - if all the nibbles and chunks were consumed it would lead to obesity. Dvorak 6 in full in an unfamiliar recording was a welcome programme choice.

[Serial_Apologist]

Just think of all those new listeners who, having been enticed by the morning menu, will believe hereafter that composers of works written in several movements only intended their works to be heard in soundbytes!

[Nick Armstrong]

To be fair, we also got the complete Rückert-Lieder with Anne-Sophie von Otter...

What seems to happen is that the first hour of EC seems to suffer from the same lazy and/or infantilising production values as the preceding Breakfast, Vltava for the nth time etc etc, daft 'mystery voice' spots etc.

From 10am, everything grows up a bit and complete works are more in evidence.

That said, I really enjoyed the Mozart Oboe Quartet (all three movements!!) which I don't really know, but that's just me. The last movement with that beguiling melody, heard on the earphones whilst cycling in sunshine among falling leaves in the Park, provided rather a special 5 minutes.

I'll have to ring or text in to Petroc and bore the t*ts off everyone about it....

[mercia]

I'll have to ring

I should imagine there's a very long waiting list

[barber olly]

Caliban

It looks as though, like me you are appreciating the good bits of the post-Breakfast curate's egg. By the way have you noticed how popular baroque concerti appear to be, but then they are not very long and suit the programme formula, as do the obligatory corny Chopin bits (I'm not a Chopin fan anyway). Don't mind Vltava but prefer it in the context of tyhe complete Ma Vlast. Maybe they should put an embaro on it until they've played the other 5 an equal number of times.

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban

It looks as though, like me you are appreciating the good bits of the post-Breakfast curate's egg. By the way have you noticed how popular baroque concerti appear to be, but then they are not very long and suit the programme formula, as do the obligatory corny Chopin bits (I'm not a Chopin fan anyway). Don't mind Vltava but prefer it in the context of tyhe complete Ma Vlast. Maybe they should put an embaro on it until they've played the other 5 an equal number of times.

[salymap]

Don't hold your breath. I think this year was the first Prom performance of Ma Vlast complete.