3beebies aka Breakfast

[mercia]

If you analyse it ............presenting longer pieces

but ff's first category of listener is people who don't mind short pieces

I reckon I could add a category of people who prefer short pieces. RW is adamant that these short-attention-span people not only exist but form the bulk of the audience at breakfast time.

[MrGongGong]

Not sure where I fit in (again !!!) to this analysis
being very keen on both La Monte Young ("The Well Tuned Piano" lasts about 6 hours )
and Webern's "Five pieces for orchestra"

[Don Petter]

but ff's first category of listener is people who don't mind short pieces

What's to say they don't mind long pieces either, as long as the music is what they like?

[mercia]

fair point, I'll let Roger answer that one

what do you reckon his answer would be?

[MrGongGong]

What's to say they don't mind long pieces either, as long as the music is what they like?

I don't listen to the radio to hear pieces of music that I know I will like because i've heard them a thousand times before
but I guess that's not what most folk do

It seems to me that using Spotify or Last FM it's pretty easy to create a continuous stream of "related" music to listen to, start with "The Four Seasons" and then let the software choose everything for you ............. why do we need a radio station to do that for us ?

[BetweenTheStaves]

...
Easy classical listening with popular classics has been catered for by CFM for quite a while now. When he first took over, RW claimed he was not attempting to compete with CFM, that they were trying to do different things. Yet what he is providing now in weekday mornings does suggest as though he is trying to encroach on CFM territory.

You are absolutely spot on. I challenge RW to to tell us what the differences are between Breakfast and Essential Classics and what ClassicFM offers. Simple answer...there is none.

And as far as the Four Seasons goes..why...ever been on-hold to a call-centre? Or stuck in a lift?

[Don Petter]

Originally Posted by Don Petter:

What's to say they don't mind long pieces either, as long as the music is what they like?

I don't listen to the radio to hear pieces of music that I know I will like because i've heard them a thousand times before
but I guess that's not what most folk do

Sorry - That was sloppy phrasing of mine!

What I should have said to convey my meaning was 'What's to say they don't mind long pieces either, as long as the music is something that they will enjoy hearing?'

[mercia]

And as far as the Four Seasons goes..why...ever been on-hold to a call-centre? Or stuck in a lift?

far nicer to hear it on Radio 3 at breakfast time

[french frank]

You are absolutely spot on. I challenge RW to to tell us what the differences are between Breakfast and Essential Classics and what ClassicFM offers. Simple answer...there is none.

But, of course, they aren't identical - and this is why R3 gets away with it. R3 is "distinctive".

Classic FM has its listeners. Quite obviously its listeners don't listen exclusively to Classic FM. The bulk of their listeners also listen to Radio 4 and Radio 2. About 15% are shared with Radio 3.

Now, if you tailor your programming - as Radio 3 mornings now are tailored - to attract Radio 4 and Radio 2 listeners, you are, by definition, targeting the CFM audience. You are increasing the choice for CFM, Radio 4 and R2 listeners and you are reducing it for 'serious', dedicated classical music listeners - those who already have a wide knowledge, those who have an average knowledge, and those who want to learn more about classical music.

There has been a knock-on effect which has particularly hit jazz listeners too. And a thread by Draco has pointed up the reduction in quality arts/speech programming.

My own view is that there could well be something of a reduction in the amount of classical music programming (to the benefit of other genres), but that that which is left should be a hell of a lot better than it is at present. It should be specialist and provided by experts, its aim to deepen listeners' knowledge of music, not simply to entertain.

[Old Grumpy]

My own view is that there could well be something of a reduction in the amount of classical music programming (to the benefit of other genres), but that that which is left should be a hell of a lot better than it is at present. It should be specialist and provided by experts, its aim to deepen listeners' knowledge of music, not simply to entertain.

I would agree with that.

[MrGongGong]

That seems a very good idea to me too

[barber olly]

far nicer to hear it on Radio 3 at breakfast time

But Four Seasons lasts 40 mins or so - we never get the whole thing on Breakfast - it would crash the pips the news or failing that PT's ego. I dream of 7.00 -8.00with Schubert 5 and Glazunov's Seasons played complete, or Daphnis complete with just enough time for Morgen before the news at 8. What better introduction would someone want to the wonderful world of classical music?

[doversoul1]

aeolium #131
(apologies for going back a bit)
I agree that there are many ways of identifying ‘popular’ works objectively and I also agree that these works are frequently played on Breakfast. But I am not so sure about this:

the Four Seasons, or the Hebrides overture, or Montagues and Capulets from R&J are familiar to the great majority of those listening to R3 in the morning is if not indisputable fact highly probable. The great majority of those who are at all familiar with classical music could not help but be acquainted with them, and even casual listeners who do not listen to classical music would probably know quite a few of the tunes from piped music, callcentre music etc.

A lot of people will probably recognise the tunes but I wouldn’t expect more than 2 out of 20 people I know could tell what it is. To those people, hearing it on the radio as a piece of work of classical music can be a new and interesting experience. You’ll probably say ‘but not for those who habitually listen to Radio3.’ The point is, Breakfast is designed to attract those who do not habitually listen to Radio3. You cannot assume that the music that is over familiar to you is the same to these ‘new’ listeners.

This may all sound as if I am supporting RW. Of course I am not. I am saying that if you base your argument on the content and say that it is all too familiar and not worth listening, the answer will be ‘but that’s your own personal taste.’

These programmes that are meant to attract new listeners depend very heavily on gimmicks, and people who are attracted by gimmicks become bored when the novelty wears out. It can be quite costly to keep these customers happy, whereas the existing listeners demand nothing more than music presented by professional broadcasters, which surely is much less costly in a long term, although I have a suspicion that the cost is not the real issue.

They may argue that if one in a thousand new listeners becomes a serious listener, surely it is a good thing. It would be if it weren’t at the expense of a thousand existing listeners who feel they are no longer catered for.

ff

It should be specialist and provided by experts, its aim to deepen listeners' knowledge of music, not simply to entertain.

YES IT SHOULD.

[aeolium]

A lot of people will probably recognise the tunes but I wouldn’t expect more than 2 out of 20 people I know could tell what it is. To those people, hearing it on the radio as a piece of work of classical music can be a new and interesting experience. You’ll probably say ‘but not for those who habitually listen to Radio3.’ The point is, Breakfast is designed to attract those who do not habitually listen to Radio3. You cannot assume that the music that is over familiar to you is the same to these ‘new’ listeners.

Well, I'd be surprised if 2 out of 20 people listening to R3 in the morning could not tell the names of the tunes for the Four Seasons, Hebrides overture, the origin of the Romeo and Juliet extracts, but it is hard to argue about it as it is speculation as to who is listening. If, as you say, Breakfast is designed to attract those who do not habitually listen to R3, then this suggests the R3 management are quite happy for the habitual listeners to switch off for that period. I suppose that's just the collateral damage of the policy.

They may argue that if one in a thousand new listeners becomes a serious listener, surely it is a good thing.

But what does that new recruit do when s/he becomes a serious listener (or let us say 'habitual listener' as 'serious listener' is a forbidden phrase on these boards)? Listen to the music on Breakfast that will eventually become all too familiar, or - like an increasing number of the other habitual listeners - turn it off?

[mercia]

Daphnis complete

would you be able to give the complete Daphnis your full attention if you were getting ready for work, feeding the cat/kids/chickens, running for the train etc. etc. ?

according to RW, the 6:30 - 9am slot is for people on the move