3beebies aka Breakfast

[mercia]

people keep telling me about the similarity of R3 and CFM
where are the adverts on R3?
where are the live concerts on CFM?
where are the opera broadcasts on CFM?
etc. etc. etc. I just can't see the similarity

[salymap]

people keep telling me about the similarity of R3 and CFM
where are the adverts on R3?
where are the live concerts on CFM?
where are the opera broadcasts on CFM?
etc. etc. etc. I just can't see the similarity

Much of the music overlaps on a bad day. The few hundred 'pot boilers' as we used to call them. I agree, it's still got some way to go though.

[Frances_iom]

people keep telling me about the similarity of R3 and CFM
where are the adverts on R3?
..
etc. etc. etc. I just can't see the similarity

try the trails (not all for R2.5) about every 15min or more frequent at Breakfast, try the 'product placement' in that items are chosen on basis that a plug for a forthcoming concert etc can be given - most of us could hear the similarity tho I admit R2.5 has some way to go to reach the level and density of CFm adverts, but is rapidly approaching it.
However you seem very happy with R2.5 so enjoy it - maybe you can't recall R3 in preWright days.

[James Wonnacott]

Now I know I've been absent for a long time (much to the delight of certain regulars, I'm sure) but I thought I'd look in to see what the general feeling on the new "breakfast" was.
I've now resorted entirely to "listen again to TTN" during my working day. However, since "breakfast" has moved 30 minutes I now hear the first ten minutes or so as I drive to work.
Fors: I get the news.
RC has been removed along with his simpering "a very good morning", "thank you very much" etc.
Againsts: The same mindless babble from SMP.
The same short snippets of music.
One question: This "your call" drivel- are there really R3 listeners stupid enough to "phone in"?????????

[antongould]

anton g, mercia

Let's acknowledge one point here. The 'broader audience' that Radio 3 is pursuing is larger, much larger, than the narrower audience which Radio 3 has hitherto served. The clue lies in the word 'broader'. If you introduce more 'popular' features, again, the clue lies in the word 'popular': the potential audience is huge - that's why the 'Step Into Our World' trails went out on BBC One, BBC Two, Radio2 and Radio 4. They're going 'downmarket' to attract more listeners. Sorry, 'new' listeners.

The middle of the road audience is the largest and, increasingly (and therefore?), the only one catered for by the BBC.

In shifting towards that audience, they shift away from their previous audience which demanded higher standards of expertise, more insight, more challenge. Clearly the deprived audience is smaller than the new audience. But they still complain in the hope someone will listen.

A middle of the road Radio 3 will become not worth listening to unless you have no special interest - whether this is classical music, jazz or world music. But it will appeal to the 'broader' audience. The majority.

Sorry but I don't acknowledge the point at all - without going over our respective points yet again I would just say that I think you put too much store on the various mission statements the BBC and the Trust spew out. It seems nowadays that all 'with it" organisations must have these and yet no one with brain cells in the organisation really believes a word of them. I remember a particularly absurd one of the company I work for with then 7 million contracts. 1 million extra customers each with 2 contracts in 3 years. Sounds wonderful but given the marketplace impossible and so 3 years later we had just over 6 million contracts!!
IMHO Radio 3 is simply trying, realistically, to maintain it's audience for classical music but the target population is changing in terms of distractions, attention span, access to classical music at home/school/further education etc etc. etc.
How is it to attract new listeners? - the eternal question in the eternal debate. Perhaps Radio 3 has not come up with the best answer but I would suggest alternatives are not very forthcoming hereabouts. The "best" seems to be to utilise CFM as some sort of halfway house from which the trainees will eventually move to the elevated plains of old style Radio 3.
But enough I'm off again - to repeat I don't acknowledge the point nor do I acknowledge the iceberg floating away theory.

[french frank]

the target population is changing in terms of distractions, attention span, access to classical music at home/school/further education etc etc. etc.

What is the target population?

By 'broader audience' I (and the BBC, apparently) mean the BBC One, BBC Two, Radio 2 and Radio 4 viewers/listeners. The BBC spent an undisclosed sum on an unprecedentedly wide promotional campaign, which included cutting edge technology used for the first time in this country on such a campaign. The 'target' of that campaign was either huge (as I would say) or the campaign was expensively indiscriminate if the target audience (as you say) was limited.

I said nothing about icebergs floating away. Leaving icebergs out of it, it's recognised in commerce that only a fraction of dissatisfied customers complain. The rest don't for various reasons. Unless every listener dissatisfied with what Radio 3 is doing has found their way to this forum and posted their dissatisfaction (unlikely) then there is a hidden pool of dissatisfaction somewhere. Common sense would dictate that among 2 million listeners far more than the few who post here are similarly dissatisfied.

[antongould]

I see the target audience as anyone with an ear for good serious music - ideally the younger the better. Salymap. ideal in everything, is especially ideal here joining at 18 and still going forty years later. It is this group that is not as it was and is probably hard to capture.
Obviously only a small percentage of unhappy customers complain but to borrow mercia's logic the percentage of the the satisfied population that express their appreciation is certainly less.

[MrGongGong]

I always laugh at the term "serious music" which seems to include Gilbert and Sullivan (which isn't "serious") but not Metallica (which is)
its a bit like the "serious crime squad" without a "trivial and frivolous crime squad" the word "serious" seems more than a little redundant

[antongould]

fair point well made!

[barber olly]

Whatever happened to the KISS approach. Why can't the Suits on the BBC roof realise that less is more. Less talk, more music. Leave the bleeding chunks to CFM and concentrate on full works. If there is a need to cut costs save by not having celebrity presenters or guests and silly advertising campaigns. From 6.30am to 4.30pm will be 'The all day breakfast' minmal chat, no phone-ins, just loads of great music, all in lovely full work, megabite chunks, all playlisted in advance in RT and on the net. It'll be so good new listeners will be queuing up. Good to hear Reiner's Scheherazade on essential Classics - flashback to the sixties when Reiner, Monteux and Kletzki's recordings reigned supreme.

[MrGongGong]

Whatever happened to the KISS approach. Why can't the Suits on the BBC roof realise that less is more. Less talk, more music. Leave the bleeding chunks to CFM and concentrate on full works. If there is a need to cut costs save by not having celebrity presenters or guests and silly advertising campaigns. From 6.30am to 4.30pm will be 'The all day breakfast' minmal chat, no phone-ins, just loads of great music, all in lovely full work, megabite chunks, all playlisted in advance in RT and on the net. It'll be so good new listeners will be queuing up.

I like to imagine my radio 3 presenters wearing dinner jackets NOT dressed up like this

http://www.bremstone98.ewebsite.com/img/original/8/kiss-band-mr03.jpg

but I guess if it attracts more people to Havergal Brian then I guess its ok

[french frank]

Salymap. ideal in everything, is especially ideal here joining at 18 and still going forty years later. It is this group that is not as it was and is probably hard to capture.

I don't think the 18-year-olds - or even younger - ever were the 'average' teenager. This age group never flocked to listen to Radio 3, or the Third Programme. Elderly people ringing in to recite their memories doesn't seem to me to be what would attract that age group.

barber olly's KISS approach is self-recommending, in my view.

MrGG - the other description was always 'good music' but I don't think they meant what you would mean by the term!

[MrGongGong]

MrGG - the other description was always 'good music' but I don't think they meant what you would mean by the term!

Good is fine by me if it includes Bruckner, Bach, Ligeti, Stimmhorn AND Ryoji Ikeda, Don Cherry and Evan Parker
but I guess you are right !

[antongould]

I don't think the 18-year-olds - or even younger - ever were the 'average' teenager. This age group never flocked to listen to Radio 3, or the Third Programme. Elderly people ringing in to recite their memories doesn't seem to me to be what would attract that age group.

I agree they never flocked but when I was at Poly a significant percentage did listen to the Third. My children said in their very recent years at uni' they knew of no one who did.
Further I have no doubt that these aforementioned offspring are much more likely to find memories of the music played more appealing that complete works without chat.

[french frank]

My children said in their very recent years at uni' they knew of no one who did.

I knew no one who did. I discovered it all by myself

Further I have no doubt that these aforementioned offspring are much more likely to find memories of the music played more appealing that complete works without chat.

Well, that's the way education's gone, isn't it?