Feedback 13 May 2022

[Serial_Apologist]

I've been away listening to the Breakfast Gold Standard: Petroc's Classical Alarm Call from this morning. One can only say "De gustibus non disputandum". If you can listen to it without pain, you will have a positive view of it. I managed the first hour and a half and took notes. It's the same points (De gustibus) that aren't/can't be denied. It's not just the extracts. It's the length of the 'complete' pieces - far too short for me so that it's just a ragbag of 6-minute+ pieces: Handel-Dora Bright (more of something else on the evening concert)-Anoushka Shankar trail for her programme-Jenny McLeod-Satie-Ricci-Brett Dean-News and Weather (again)-Puccini-invitation to people to get in contact with the show.…and so on.

Antoine Tamestit played Telemann and will be on Afternoon Concert, Steven Osborne also gave a cracking recital in Inverness yesterday-today is Norwegian Constitution day, carnival and ice creams and Greig (tweet from listener about being in Norway on Constitution Day)-Marianna Martines was a friend of Beethoven and Haydn and something else on Afternoon Concert, Satie and Ricci have the same birthday (today)-five-star review of Brett Dean's Hamlet somewhere...

But you're quite right: 'clearly quite a lot of others do like that'. I could go on, but these days I bore even myself.

A kaleidoscope of unrelated, inconsequential uselessness in both the content and its delivery, in other words.

[Flay]

I've just discovered a series of archived programmes on "Sounds" called "How to Listen," described as "A history and explanation of classical music to help listeners appreciate its nuances."

They do just what Radio 3 should be doing (in addition to the aforementioned "entertainment" function of R3, where it is being compared to CFM as if that is a yardstick). They inform and they educate. There's nothing like it now - and there should be. Can not at least one musical piece each week be presented as a detailed study (and in a way that assumes that the listener has as least a modicum of musical knowledge). "How to Listen" preceded a Proms performance and discussed some of the works to be heard.

And where is the archive? From Radio 3? Not at all - it's from the World Service!

[french frank]

I've just discovered a series of archived programmes on "Sounds" called "How to Listen," described as "A history and explanation of classical music to help listeners appreciate its nuances."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0336blz

I certainly wouldn't sniff at those!

And I may return to retort to an earlier post: "Yes, Radio 3 IS cheapening classical music." Then again, I might not

[Flay]

Thanks for providing the link, ff. I'd forgotten to do that

[Ein Heldenleben]

I see from the latest Rajar Radio 3 has increased its share from 1.4 per cent to 1.6 per cent quarter on quarter with reach ( number listening for a minutes a week) now over 2 million.
In other news Radio Cornwall continues its staggering run with share UP from 22.8 to 23 per cent.
Radio One seems to have shed a fair few listeners . Perhaps they should start playing classical music and do the odd newsbeat in Cornish ?

[gurnemanz]

All of which has driven me to https://areena.yle.fi/audio/ohjelmat/yle-klassinen

There are many good streamed playlist stations such as this one, which do not have the same brief as R3. It's on my pre-set list and I listen to it sometimes but it has the drawback for me that on my streamer it doesn't offer a readout with details of which music is current being broadcast and since it is interspersed with announcements in a language incomprehensible to me I have to go to their website to find out these details.

[gurnemanz]

I don’t think Radio 3 has “cheapened” classical music. Before the days of recording and broadcasting classical music (excluding Church music) was largely the preserve of the elite - indeed in the days of Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven a super elite of Viennese aristocrats. Now recorded classical music is virtually free to all - it is “cheaper” than chips. What Radio 3 does do is provide at least 3 to 4 hours of live (or recorded as live ) classical music every day . More if you include Afternoon concert . All the presentation is done to a high standard. No one else in the UK is doing that .
You obviously don’t like the bleeding chunks pre- noon. To be honest I would often prefer whole pieces . But Clearly quite a lot of others do like that and to justify its huge cost per head compared to Radios 1 and 2 there has to be some attempt to draw in a mass audience - mass in the sense of 00’s of thousands not the millions that Network TV delivers at the same time.
There’s nothing new or cheap about the excerpt approach to classical music. Excerpts , re arrangements, placing of popular music of the day was common in 19th century concert culture and indeed in the early days of the Proms . Those concerts were often a pot-pourri. Arguably they’d had to be to draw in an audience for what was an expensive undertaking . These days the BBC Symphony can schedule a concert of Schoenberg, Berg , Webern and not have to worry whether tickets sell. Thankfully as tastes change and evolve composers like Mahler who would once have baffled a London audience now sell out . To sum up the harsh facts I’m afraid are that classical music fans and particularly opera fans like me are amongst the most heavily subsidised cultural consumers in the world. We’re only in that position because there still seems to be a common assumption that “high” culture has a value that means subsidising it is a mark of a “civilised” society . We could very easily move to the US cultural assumption where there is virtually no public subsidy for either the Arts or broadcasting.

Good points.

[Flay]

This programme repeat from the other day is timely!

Yes, Prime Minister, Series 2: 6. The Patron of the Arts: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0074s30

[cloughie]

I see from the latest Rajar Radio 3 has increased its share from 1.4 per cent to 1.6 per cent quarter on quarter with reach ( number listening for a minutes a week) now over 2 million.
In other news Radio Cornwall continues its staggering run with share UP from 22.8 to 23 per cent.
Radio One seems to have shed a fair few listeners . Perhaps they should start playing classical music and do the odd newsbeat in Cornish ?

I suspect that the big following both within Cornwall and Up Country for the afternoon David White show is the main reason for the RC run and increase!

[french frank]

I don’t think Radio 3 has “cheapened” classical music.

This what I would term "cheapening" classical music: sequences of short pieces, including 'bleeding chunks' interspersed with irrelevant comments which have nothing to do with music, plus comments and nostalgic memories from listeners. Literally hours on end with no substantial presentational input. Also trivialising pieces of music with hooks like 'Tearjerkers'. Look who else does that. Sequences like Christian Sinding-Oscar Hammerstein II-Paganini-Vincent Youmans-Schubert. That's what I call "cheapening classical music". Others may disagree. Even something like "dumbing down" depends on the perspective from which you view it (what is 'making accessible' to one listener is 'dumbing down' for another; the result of trying to cater for too wide an audience. The equivalent of sitting 11-year-olds and 18-year-olds in the same classroom and attempting to teach both groups with the identical material.)

[Beresford]

Maybe it is just a little bit high handed to complain about R3 dumbing down, given that it is the only UK channel to broadcast a full range of Western Classical Music.
Look what you get - short pieces or single movements in the morning (I guess record companies would not like complete works broadcast from CD), a chamber music recital at lunchtime, longer concerts of whole works in the afternoon, and concerts and selections from all over Europe at night, albeit from a more limited range of music than it used to be. You can ignore the interjections from the presenters; even the trailers would be ok if they were live, therefore not repeated exactly. All that is missing is a blood transfusion of more modern (from the last 70 years) music, accessible to those who make an effort, introduced by a genuine enthusiast.
But Saturdays are different, I admit.

[french frank]

Maybe it is just a little bit high handed to complain about R3 dumbing down, given that it is the only UK channel to broadcast a full range of Western Classical Music.

I'm not sure if that was in response to me! I didn't actually complain that Radio 3 was 'dumbing down'; I merely said that people might disagree with me about R3 'cheapening classical music' (and I explained why I thought it was) and said it was like the phrase 'dumbing down' in that it could be viewed from different perspectives.

You say 'You can ignore the interjections from the presenters'. Possibly. The point is that some listeners want high quality input about the music, while others seemingly either want presenters to shut up entirely and just play the music or they're happy to put up with the inconsequentialities. My point is that if all that R3 provides is the music, that is nothing different from what is provided in numerous other sources. The additional value is provided by the expert comment, the thought-provoking insights about music. Expanding people's ideas about music. If that is 'intellectualising music', so be it. Why not?

[gurnemanz]

Keeping up with the intricacies of BBC management machinations has not been a priority of mine but I was interested to read an update from Private Eye's music correspondent, Lunchtime O' Boulez, today. He suggests that a reason for the decline in R3 standards (as perceived in some quarters) is Alan Davey's loss of status, "becoming answerable to a new overall director of music, Lorna Clarke, who until now has been the BBC's Commissioner of pop".

Also, the Controller of BBC Radio 3, Proms and Orchestras and Choirs has lost part of his job description due to "a new appointment of a head of choirs and orchestras who will work alongside him". It doesn't say who this person is.

Mr O'Boulez finishes by commenting: "Once upon a time the person running Radio 3 had clout and the job was done with vigour by the likes Sir John Drummond, who argued fiercely for the integrity and substance of classical music broadcasting and left a remarkable legacy. Running Radio 3 is now a job for lesser figures with less clout. It doesn't bode well."

[french frank]

Keeping up with the intricacies of BBC management machinations has not been a priority of mine but I was interested to read an update from Private Eye's music correspondent, Lunchtime O' Boulez, today. He suggests that a reason for the decline in R3 standards (as perceived in some quarters) is Alan Davey's loss of status, "becoming answerable to a new overall director of music, Lorna Clarke, who until now has been the BBC's Commissioner of pop".

Perhaps, though this isn't a new situation. Bob Shennan (recreations: sport, pop music) was the first Director of Music, appointed March 2014. Roger Wright resigned in March 2014 and left the BBC in the following September. Some think his resignation and the appointment of a DoM were connected in some way. So Alan Davey has always been 'subject' to a Director of Music with nil/little interest in classical music. This is understandable. In these days, a specialist in pop music will always get a BBC senior appointment in music over a specialist in classical music.

Also, the Controller of BBC Radio 3, Proms and Orchestras and Choirs has lost part of his job description due to "a new appointment of a head of choirs and orchestras who will work alongside him". It doesn't say who this person is.

Sounds like a three-way split: Radio 3, the Proms (David Pickard, Director), Orchestras & Choirs. Though Pickard still comes nominally under Davey so the 'head of choirs and orchestras' may also be a subordinate.

Mr O'Boulez finishes by commenting: "Once upon a time the person running Radio 3 had clout and the job was done with vigour by the likes Sir John Drummond, who argued fiercely for the integrity and substance of classical music broadcasting and left a remarkable legacy. Running Radio 3 is now a job for lesser figures with less clout. It doesn't bode well."

True Drummond would be less compliant towards any perceived 'drop in standards'. He didn't have much time for senior BBC management, but does seem to have got his way on a lot of things. He had ambitious ideas and was able to realise them. He could be … difficult.