Ah, Ian Skelly

[ardcarp]

I nearly threw something at the radio today. As I was driving I thought better of it. But it's not an unusual impulse.

Introducing a filler item in today's Afternoon Concert, Skelly said something along the lines of "William Cornyshe was obviously not a bird-spotter as he referred to the robin as being a gentle bird, whereas in fact it's territorial". So, with true Radio 3 perversity, the wonderful Ah Robin was rendered by trombone and two recorders. OK, Il Giardino Armonico played it OK, but the pitch gap of the instruments was all wrong. The piece is one of my absolute favourites (along with Woefully Arrayed) by this most forward-looking composer of his time. What's wrong with SINGERS and THE WORDS???

[french frank]

Is it about a bird?

[cloughie]

Is it about a bird?

Or a Goodfellow?

Actually I’ve often pondered on whether a Round Robin was spherically a bird!

[french frank]

Or a Goodfellow?

Actually I’ve often pondered on whether a Round Robin was spherically a bird!

Well, Robin and Marion were the stock medieval peasant couple. The Cornyshe text asks Robin about his sweetheart (his leman) - "and thou shalt know of mine."

[ardcarp]

Mrs A and I were debating whether the text referred to a bird. (It had never occurred to me although I've sung it many times.) Mind you I never quite understood what a leman was either!

Ah, Robin, gentle Robin,
Tell me how thy leman doth,
And thou shalt know of mine.
Ah, Robin …
My lady is unkind, iwis,
Alac why is she so?
She lov’th another better than me,
And yet she will say no.
Ah, Robin …
I cannot think such doubleness,
For I find women true;
In faith my lady lov’th me well,
She will change for no new.
Ah, Robin

I think I assumed the singer was consulting another person about his lover. Robin Goodfellow sounds very plausible, or the Robin of Robin and Marion.

I also remember, in the days of my singing tuition, learning some wonderful Warlock songs, one of which starts (IIRC)

Robin and Richard were two pretty men,
They lay in bed 'til half-past ten.

It struck me at the time as mildly homo-erotic, but my teacher..not one to hold back on risqué stories....didn't bat an eyelid about that one.

[french frank]

Mrs A and I were debating whether the text referred to a bird. (It had never occurred to me although I've sung it many times.) Mind you I never quite understood what a leman was either!

I'd always taken it as part of the pastourelle tradition where Robin is the young shepherd, so started looking around. I have the Tallis Scholars recording and Peter Phillips writes in the notes: "We interpret the text as a dialogue" which doesn't fit the idea of Robin being a robin. But looking online, Andrew Stewart's notes for Harry Christophers' recording say: "The words of Ah, Robin were probably written by Sir Thomas Wyatt, the man who introduced the sonnet to England from Italy. Its three-part setting, perhaps based on an existing popular tune, projects a debate in which the gentle robin appears as champion of female love and constancy."

Wasn't Wyatt (b 1503) a bit young to have written words to a song for William Cornysh (d 1523)?

It appears that Wyatt's (longer) poem has Ah, Robin, jolly Robin.

[ardcarp]

Yes, I sang a version with 'jolly' in it, which also IIRC has 'tell me how thy lady doth'. Maybe a 'modernised' attempt at some time?

The piece really is quite remarkable (a) for its date (b) for its 1 then 2 then 3 part texture and (c) for its clever simplicity.

Wasn't Wyatt (b 1503) a bit young to have written words to a song for William Cornysh (d 1523)?

As for the authorship of the text I'm afraid I'm out of my depth here. (Mrs A.....1st class Honours in English...isn't any help either.)



Just holding my breath for a R3 version for marimba, mouth-organ with Crispian Steele Perkins on the hosepipe.

[ardcarp]

There has been some confusion, I gather, between our Cornyshe and his father. Some interesting info here, especially about his taking the Chapel Royal choir to the Field of the Cloth of Gold...and having been imprisoned at one time.

William Cornysh, Cornysh also spelled Cornyshe or Cornysshe, (born, East Greenwich, England—died c. October 1523, Hylden?, Kent), English composer, poet, playwright, and actor, a favourite court musician of Henry VIII, who granted him a manor in Kent, where he presumably died.

Little is known of Cornysh’s early life, but he may have been the son of William Cornysh (died c. 1502), the first master of the choristers at Westminster (about 1479–91) and a Gentleman of the Chapel Royal, a group that tutored young boys in the art of singing and acting. William Cornysh the younger was connected with the Chapel Royal from 1496 and in 1509 succeeded William Newark as master. He took the Chapel Royal to France with the king in 1513 and also again in 1520 to the Field of Cloth of Gold, where the group was favourably received. He wrote and performed in plays, masques, and pageants, being a principal actor at the court from 1508 to 1516. His musical works included four complete motets and a Magnificat, as well as a number of sacred and secular songs. A poem he wrote while in Fleet prison for slander was printed in a collection of the poet John Skelton’s works and is sometimes mistakenly attributed to that poet.