Organ music on BBC Radio 3 - missed opportunities

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  • daktari
    Full Member
    • Jul 2021
    • 24

    Organ music on BBC Radio 3 - missed opportunities

    Am I the only listener who thinks that radio 3 often misses an opportunity here? Recordings of music by Bach and Buxtehude are often played on boring, neo-baroque instruments by organists who play in an outdated legato way with a lifeless agogic (no offence, e.g. Michel Chapuis this morning in BWV 547, which should be a quirky and lively piece). Organ music will always need an extra effort to appeal to a greater public, and choosing a period (style) instrument and an organist who knows how to apply baroque and 'stylus phantasticus' rhetoric accents can make all the difference, even if the music of the great Johann Sebastian will always survive the worst of interpretations and instruments...
    Last edited by daktari; 24-09-21, 19:58. Reason: confusion
  • cloughie
    Full Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 22126

    #2
    Originally posted by daktari View Post
    Am I the only listener who thinks that radio 3 often misses an opportunity here? Performances of music by Bach and Buxtehude are often played on boring neo-baroque instruments by organists who play in an outdated legato way with lifeless agogic (no offense, e.g. Michel Chapuis this morning in BWV 547, which should be a quirky and lively piece). Organ music will always need an extra effort to appeal to a greater public, and choosing a period (style) instrument and an organist who knows how to apply baroque and 'stylus phantasticus' rhetoric accents can make all the difference, even if the music of the great Johann Sebastian will always survive the worst of interpretations and instruments...
    Indeed two of the most enjoyable proms this year included Poulenc OC and S-S 3. I remember a few years ago when short Bach organ pieces were played late at night on BBC2 - fascinating as the footwork was shown in addition to manuals. I have recently taken an interest in what sounds the organ can make as Covid limited the singing in church and ad hoc male voice group (max six) have sung the hymns in place of a congregation. A tenor crescendo alongside a ‘full on’ organ at times quite a challenge.

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    • Keraulophone
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 1945

      #3
      Originally posted by cloughie View Post
      quite a challenge
      John Challenger, ADoM at Salisbury, is giving this Friday lunchtime's organ recital on the Father Willis in your local cathedral.

      Not to be missed!

      Comment

      • Keraulophone
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 1945

        #4
        Originally posted by daktari View Post
        Bach and Buxtehude are often played on boring neo-baroque instruments by organists who play in an outdated legato way with lifeless agogic (no offense, e.g. Michel Chapuis this morning in BWV 547, which should be a quirky and lively piece).
        While agreeing with your general point about style, I enjoy hearing interpretations from different eras on R3. Chapuis recorded BWV 547 in 1968 on the Schnitger organ of Saint-Michel, Zwolle (built 1721, messed-up but restored by Flentrop in various stages). His playing was lively for its time, though now seems too legato as you say. However, suffering such bright upperwork plus A=502 is like being stuck with sharp needles!

        Today's yardsticks are very different, as Leo van Doeselaar beautifully demonstrates in his All of Bach performance of the same piece: https://youtu.be/P97d0Y8Hx_g His tempo is similar to Chapuis, but there is so much more flexibility and communication going on.

        It's interesting to hear visiting organists' different approaches to Bach on the Truro Willis. On the Priory CD 'A Late Twentieth Century Edwardian Bach Recital', Kevin Bowyer thunders away on the Arthur Harrison organ of 1912 in St.Mary, Redcliffe, to marvellous effect.

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        • Frances_iom
          Full Member
          • Mar 2007
          • 2413

          #5
          Organ music on R3 is definitely the poorest of relations - I was surprised how little such music was played during the lockdowns as of all instruments it is the easiest to socially distance.

          Comment

          • cloughie
            Full Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 22126

            #6
            Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
            John Challenger, ADoM at Salisbury, is giving this Friday lunchtime's organ recital on the Father Willis in your local cathedral.

            Not to be missed!

            https://www.trurocathedral.org.uk/wh...-2021-01-10-pm
            Thanks for that - can’t make tomorrow but maybe one if the October recitals.

            Comment

            • daktari
              Full Member
              • Jul 2021
              • 24

              #7
              Chapuis recorded BWV 547 in 1968 on the Schnitger organ of Saint-Michel, Zwolle (built 1721, messed-up but restored by Flentrop in various stages). His playing was lively for its time, though now seems too legato as you say. However, suffering such bright upperwork plus A=502 is like being stuck with sharp needles!
              Thank you very much Keraulophone for that bit of information. I have heard the (FC) Schnitger organ of St Michaelskerk, Zwolle (and the Hinsz organ in neighbouring Kampen's Bovenkerk, lovely recorded on Margaret Phillips' JSB volume V) on many occasions, and would not have recognised it without your comment. The Zwolle organ is due for a major overhaul and hopefully some of the neo-baroque 'o tempora o mores' sins from 1953-55 will be expiated, interestingly by the same firm of Flentrop, Zaandam. The plan includes restauration of a 'lively' wind supply and a general (further) return to the original Schnitger concept, voicing and tuning, even making use of preserved Schnitger material which was not incorporated in 1953-55! Of course Flentrop did an excellent job in reconstructing the organ of St Katharinenkirche, Hamburg, which can be heard and seen in many of the All of Bach recordings of JSB's organ works.
              Last edited by daktari; 23-09-21, 17:18.

              Comment

              • gradus
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 5609

                #8
                Originally posted by daktari View Post
                Am I the only listener who thinks that radio 3 often misses an opportunity here? Performances of music by Bach and Buxtehude are often played on boring neo-baroque instruments by organists who play in an outdated legato way with lifeless agogic (no offense, e.g. Michel Chapuis this morning in BWV 547, which should be a quirky and lively piece). Organ music will always need an extra effort to appeal to a greater public, and choosing a period (style) instrument and an organist who knows how to apply baroque and 'stylus phantasticus' rhetoric accents can make all the difference, even if the music of the great Johann Sebastian will always survive the worst of interpretations and instruments...
                Glad you posted about the truly dreadful performance of 547 this morning, it sounded like it was played on a funfair organ by someone who had no idea of how the piece should go. 0/10.

                Comment

                • Keraulophone
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1945

                  #9
                  Originally posted by gradus View Post
                  it sounded like it was played on a funfair organ by someone who had no idea of how the piece should go.
                  Given that it was recorded on a famous C18th organ (albeit not fully restored), I think the sound engineer and producer ought to shoulder their fair share of our criticism. Michel Chapuis was widely respected as an expert on C17th & C18th French organ music, and many regarded his Bach playing in the 1960s as progressive but today it can sound relentless, even soulless. He taught at the Paris Conservatoire and ended up as organist at Versailles.

                  Comment

                  • gradus
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 5609

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
                    Given that it was recorded on a famous C18th organ (albeit not fully restored), I think the sound engineer and producer ought to shoulder their fair share of our criticism. Michel Chapuis was widely respected as an expert on C17th & C18th French organ music, and many regarded his Bach playing in the 1960s as progressive but today it can sound relentless, even soulless. He taught at the Paris Conservatoire and ended up as organist at Versailles.
                    Soulless and relentless sums it up.

                    Comment

                    • daktari
                      Full Member
                      • Jul 2021
                      • 24

                      #11
                      Continuing the subject: again this morning, when the last two variations of the partita Sei gegrüßet, Jesu gütig, BWV 768 (both the radio 3 website and presenter seem to be unable to manage umlauts) were played on an uninspiring organ ('St Mary's Servite Priory, Fulham') that sounded much more English than German, IMO unsuited to the colours and textures of this work. There would have been so many more winsome options!

                      Comment

                      • daktari
                        Full Member
                        • Jul 2021
                        • 24

                        #12
                        On the other hand Margaret Phillips, just now on In Tune on the Leeuwarden Müller in the Andante of BWV 528, transported me to heaven.

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