Skelly leaving Essential Classics

[french frank]

What do we mean by 'younger' audiences in R3 terms anyaway? Guidance needed.
And............ EC is on when I'd guess VERY few 'younger' potential audiences are around?

Younger than 59 (the average age of the R3 audience) - the so-called 'replenisher' audience. Just found this quote from The Times 2019:

"Are you a young-at-heart culture vulture who enjoys the finer things in life? Then Radio 3 wants your ears.

The BBC’s classical music station is seeking to replenish its greying audience by targeting a new category of middle-aged listener.

“Passionate minds”, as these potential listeners are known, are central to the network’s strategy of reaching beyond its core audience of classical music devotees. The demographic group was invented by the BBC’s internal research team, and its members are defined as “culturally engaged” 35 to 54-year-olds."

There you have it.

[cloughie]

Yes, I should've said "Third Programme/R3".

I started listening in my teens in the 1970s. I don't know if it was unusual at that time for teenagers to be listening to R3.

Not in our house, but not many of my classmates did in the 60s, mind you there was a great range of music in most genres at the time - and you don’t hear any of it on the ageist Beeb now!

[oddoneout]

Younger than 59 (the average age of the R3 audience) - the so-called 'replenisher' audience. Just found this quote from The Times 2019:

"Are you a young-at-heart culture vulture who enjoys the finer things in life? Then Radio 3 wants your ears.

The BBC’s classical music station is seeking to replenish its greying audience by targeting a new category of middle-aged listener.

“Passionate minds”, as these potential listeners are known, are central to the network’s strategy of reaching beyond its core audience of classical music devotees. The demographic group was invented by the BBC’s internal research team, and its members are defined as “culturally engaged” 35 to 54-year-olds."

There you have it.

But would those ears want R3? I have a suspicion that for the most part the answer would be "No", as they would be finding what they want elsewhere.

[french frank]

And there's more:

"Last year Alan Davey, the Radio 3 controller, told The Times that young people would embrace classical music if they were guided. “In genre terms, young people have very fluid tastes. Providing something grabs them, there isn’t a prejudice against where it comes from,” he said."

My impression is that there is a definite prejudice against classical music, and in its most ambitious form this has to be diluted with non classical music, each piece quite short. And no dry information.

[cloughie]

And there's more:

"Last year Alan Davey, the Radio 3 controller, told The Times that young people would embrace classical music if they were guided. “In genre terms, young people have very fluid tastes. Providing something grabs them, there isn’t a prejudice against where it comes from,” he said."

My impression is that there is a definite prejudice against classical music, and in its most ambitious form this has to be diluted with non classical music, each piece quite short. And no dry information.

If they have fluid tastes why isn’t that fluidity fed on R1,2 and 6 instead of nicking our classical time on 3

Answer - because they’d turn off and switch to some commercial station!

[Edgy 2]

Yes, I should've said "Third Programme/R3".

I started listening in my teens in the 1970s. I don't know if it was unusual at that time for teenagers to be listening to R3.

Well there were at least 2 of us then

[Ein Heldenleben]

As I’ve bored so many over the years with this forgive me if I repeat it here.
The baby boom is popularly supposed to have started in 1945 . In fact if you look at a UK population pyramid ( all googlable) that boom lasted a year and then reverted to trend.

The real baby boom started in 1957 ( a great year ) and lasted 10 years . So in the 60’s there was a drive to build more primary schools . I went to a brand new primary. There is a bulge in the population pyramid known in the media and advertising as “the -pig-in the-pipe “ from age 64 to 74 .
Now that generation is nearing retirement which means , if they are like the cohort in the years above, they will
1. watch more telly and, nowadays , internet streams and they also will also listen to
2. More radio

So it’s not a good idea to alienate them as there’s 10 years worth of them out there .BUT (and this is the catch)
By 60 people have made their lifetime brand decisions . In other words they are loyal to brands they’ve been using for years unlike 20 year olds who are much more “promiscuous” brand wise . Which is why so much TV and radio is aimed at them because they are very desirable to advertisers.
BUT the BBC , not having to rely in the advertising dollar,shouldn’t have to worry about them too much . The real problem is what happens when the thirty year olds and under who don’t watch much telly hit their sixties
BUT
I suspect I won’t be around to witness it.

[hmvman]

Well there were at least 2 of us then

[Bax-of-Delights]

I first encountered “classical music” on the Light Programme on Sunday evenings in the late 50’s with “Your 100 Best Tunes”. There was no television in my parent’s house until well into the 60’s so my inquisitiveness was channeled purely through the radio - and by chance my older sister’s boyfriend’s 78 collection of Wagner overtures. Luckily my school also had a music appreciation class as extra mural activity. The Third programme rarely featured on my radar and my music education was stretched through buying Ace of Clubs records and other cheap labels. Basically, what I am saying is that the impetus to explore comes from within the person him/herself and no amount of tinkering with the schedule or making classical music “more accessible” will add a single new listener.
Be honest to the genre and the listener will come to you.

[cloughie]

I first encountered “classical music” on the Light Programme on Sunday evenings in the late 50’s with “Your 100 Best Tunes”. There was no television in my parent’s house until well into the 60’s so my inquisitiveness was channeled purely through the radio - and by chance my older sister’s boyfriend’s 78 collection of Wagner overtures. Luckily my school also had a music appreciation class as extra mural activity. The Third programme rarely featured on my radar and my music education was stretched through buying Ace of Clubs records and other cheap labels. Basically, what I am saying is that the impetus to explore comes from within the person him/herself and no amount of tinkering with the schedule or making classical music “more accessible” will add a single new listener.
Be honest to the genre and the listener will come to you.

[oddoneout]

And there's more:

"Last year Alan Davey, the Radio 3 controller, told The Times that young people would embrace classical music if they were guided. “In genre terms, young people have very fluid tastes. Providing something grabs them, there isn’t a prejudice against where it comes from,” he said."

My impression is that there is a definite prejudice against classical music, and in its most ambitious form this has to be diluted with non classical music, each piece quite short. And no dry information.

The prejudice comes from not knowing the range of music which the term encompasses and not having a chance to access said music without the offputting label, with all its baggage of worthy, difficult, only for oldies, elitist etc etc. A good few years ago now there was a series of TV programmes presented by Mathew Barley in which he tackled this, among other things, by getting young "classically trained" musicians to introduce and perform, to a group of non-classically aware peers, a piece of music that was important or had particular meaning for them. The one that has stuck with me was a young very intense girl introducing and then playing the Chopin Funeral March and the effect it had on the listeners. The reaction to all the pieces(which were, deliberately I assume, very varied) was generally along the lines of " I didn't know that was what classical music sounded like", the subtext being " I didn't think I would like it/ didn't know there were so many different types of music".
In the same way that my son's listening choices introduced me to a whole swathe of music I otherwise would never have encountered (some of which I very much liked) I think we do young people a great disservice by not facilitating access to the enormous variety of sounds included in the off-putting term " classical music" through appropriate means - which does not automatically mean soundbites and "down wiv da kids" commentary - since, for all the wonders of the internet they are for the most part unlikely to encounter it themselves.

[LMcD]

I first encountered “classical music” on the Light Programme on Sunday evenings in the late 50’s with “Your 100 Best Tunes”. There was no television in my parent’s house until well into the 60’s so my inquisitiveness was channeled purely through the radio - and by chance my older sister’s boyfriend’s 78 collection of Wagner overtures. Luckily my school also had a music appreciation class as extra mural activity. The Third programme rarely featured on my radar and my music education was stretched through buying Ace of Clubs records and other cheap labels. Basically, what I am saying is that the impetus to explore comes from within the person him/herself and no amount of tinkering with the schedule or making classical music “more accessible” will add a single new listener.
Be honest to the genre and the listener will come to you.

I couldn't agree more!

[gurnemanz]

And there's more:

"Last year Alan Davey, the Radio 3 controller, told The Times that young people would embrace classical music if they were guided. “In genre terms, young people have very fluid tastes. Providing something grabs them, there isn’t a prejudice against where it comes from,” he said."

My impression is that there is a definite prejudice against classical music, and in its most ambitious form this has to be diluted with non classical music, each piece quite short. And no dry information.

Non-classical music as a dilutant or sweetener. I hope not. Non-classical music can be just as ambitious. Classical music can be short. Song is my favourite form. The song is the dominant music of our times. I was a pop fan as a teenager in the 60s and classical music did not compete with Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Buddy Holly etc. I Iistened to Wonderful Radio London until summer 1967 when I was 18 and the Governent shut it down. The last track played was Day in the Life by the Beatles which ends with a bang and a slow fade. It was a turning point for me and I never moved to BBC Radio One which replaced it because I then went to university and became a classical fan. I realised I couldn't study German and not know German music. My first LP was Die schöne Müllerin with Fischer-Dieskau/Moore. I soon got into longer stuff with no words and haven't looked back. My appreciation of Radio Three has increased with the decades as I have come to better musical insights, the more so since being retired with loads of time to listen.

Our children are now in their late 30s and I did indoctrinate them into being Crystal Palace fans but failed to turn them into classical music fans despite our daughter playing violin in a youth orchestra to a good standard. She never listens to R3 but is definitely not prejudiced against classical but like our son prefers contemporary rock music. She has priority booking at ROH mainly for ballet, and occasional opera. It's very useful for buying opera tickets for my wife and me (those were the days ...). To our surprise she and her partner decided to go with us to the Ring Cycle recently. Glad we squeezed that in pre-Covid.

[french frank]

Our children are now in their late 30s and I did indoctrinate them into being Crystal Palace fans but failed to turn them into classical music fans despite our daughter playing violin in a youth orchestra to a good standard. She never listens to R3 but is definitely not prejudiced against classical

I don't think that invalidates my point. The BBC did one of its periodic 'lifestyle' surveys and concluded that two types of broadcast were off-putting to young people: classical music and religious programmes.

I remember the (very young) Prince William being quoted as saying "God forbid that I should listen to classical music" (quote as near as I remember it).

"BBC Radio 3 is too elitist and irrelevant and should be closed, former BBC Radio 1 presenter Noel Edmonds has said."

There was also the Radio 3 person (can't remember his status) saying that classical music was a bad 'brand' for marketing Radio 3; Andy Kershaw was good.

Plus the student magazine editor who said Late Junction and/or Andy Kershaw were the only decent programmes on Radio 3, before putting the boot into the rest of the programming.

The essay 'What's Wrong With Classical Music?' was written by a composer summing up the attitudes that he had come across.

And so on. General perceptions of classical music are not favourable.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I don't think that invalidates my point. The BBC did one of its periodic 'lifestyle' surveys and concluded that two types of broadcast were off-putting to young people: classical music and religious programmes.

I remember the (very young) Prince William being quoted as saying "God forbid that I should listen to classical music" (quote as near as I remember it).

"BBC Radio 3 is too elitist and irrelevant and should be closed, former BBC Radio 1 presenter Noel Edmonds has said."

There was also the Radio 3 person (can't remember his status) saying that classical music was a bad 'brand' for marketing Radio 3; Andy Kershaw was good.

Plus the student magazine editor who said Late Junction and/or Andy Kershaw were the only decent programmes on Radio 3, before putting the boot into the rest of the programming.

The essay 'What's Wrong With Classical Music?' was written by a composer summing up the attitudes that he had come across.

And so on. General perceptions of classical music are not favourable.

While we are in self-flagellation mode didn’t Kingsley Amis once say that contemporary composers ranked just above sex offenders in public esteem ? I hope he was joking. I’ve often wondered whether a UK politician who could play a bit would dare to perform a Mozart concerto like Helmut Schmidt once did or whether the PR and spin people would talk him/her out of it. They would argue that it’s elitist out-of-touch and fiddling while Rome burns etc. On a positive note this every child should have access to an instrument campaign from footballer Wilfried Zaha is very interesting . And he’s a PALACE player. South London you can’t beat it...l