Discovery and Innovation weekend

[french frank]

The gear change from the Strauss to the pop was not of Lewis Hamilton quality either ...

Why do they do that? They shudder at 30 minutes of 'same old same old' string quartet and break off after 10 minutes to play the theme music from Jurassic Park or Charles Trenet singing La Mer. Do 'modern audiences' (tbd) really find it difficult to concentrate on one piece of 19th c orchestral music or Classical chamber music for 30 minutes or even longer?

If you go into an art gallery and see a room full of Italian Old Masters, the experience is enhanced by the collection of works of similar date and style. You don't want to see mix of Roger van der Weyden, Klimt, Poussin, Rothko, Watteau. Er, do you? (I do mean: I don't).

[cloughie]

Why do they do that? They shudder at 30 minutes of 'same old same old' string quartet and break off after 10 minutes to play the theme music from Jurassic Park or Charles Trenet singing La Mer. Do 'modern audiences' (tbd) really find it difficult to concentrate on one piece of 19th c orchestral music or Classical chamber music for 30 minutes or even longer?

If you go into an art gallery and see a room full of Italian Old Masters, the experience is enhanced by the collection of works of similar date and style. You don't want to see mix of Roger van der Weyden, Klimt, Poussin, Rothko, Watteau. Er, do you? (I do mean: I don't).

They probably find it to concentrate on Charles Trenet’s La mer!

[oddoneout]

If you go into an art gallery and see a room full of Italian Old Masters, the experience is enhanced by the collection of works of similar date and style. You don't want to see mix of Roger van der Weyden, Klimt, Poussin, Rothko, Watteau. Er, do you? (I do mean: I don't).

Depends, would be my response, and has some bearing on this weekend's experiment perhaps. Yes, generally speaking I would expect the art to be grouped by date and style, but that doesn't mean that that is all one has to see at a time, so viewing other works as well has merit - as with concert programmes. In terms of mixing things up(date, style, medium etc), then an exhibition on a particular theme will do that and can be immensely rewarding when done well. In the same way a concert, or the broadcast equivalent of an exhibition, if done well, can be similarly rewarding; one may not like or agree with the choices or the reason for them but it gives the old grey matter something with which to exercise itself, and perhaps initiates an exchange of views.
I don't understand what this weekend was trying to achieve; the content doesn't to me reflect the title. I admit I'm somewhat out of sorts this weekend but even so the items I recognised in the schedules were not ones I wanted to listen to and the unknowns I just didn't feel like trying, although on principle I usually try and at least start listening to unfamiliar pieces of whatever type when the opportunity presents itself. I did listen to the BBC Singers slot with some pleasure - would have been even more with a different set of wimmin for the Poulenc, but short sections offset that.
Disappointed, and also somewhat concerned if this is considered an acceptable offering, given all the resources the Beeb has - even in these plague times.

[french frank]

Depends, would be my response, and has some bearing on this weekend's experiment perhaps. Yes, generally speaking I would expect the art to be grouped by date and style, but that doesn't mean that that is all one has to see at a time, so viewing other works as well has merit - as with concert programmes.

I'm less sure about concert programmes where there are few pieces anyway. But not only 'if done well', but depending on what they are trying to achieve: e.g. the treatment of a particular theme at various times and in different styles has a point; but a random collection of pieces, ranging from 5 - 10 minutes, filling up a total of x minutes of airtime …? I suspect that the sole reason is that this is thought to be 'lively': if the attention is flagging, a change of style and tempo will wake you up again! That was the reason the controller gave for the two-handed Record Reviews: the exchanges between presenter and reviewer make for a livelier broadcasting style. But I forgot, classical music is so boring and such hard going listeners do need a bit of help to get them through it, don't they?

[Richard Barrett]

Charles Trenet singing La Mer

which has an amazingly good orchestral arrangement IMO.

(as you were)

[Ein Heldenleben]

which has an amazingly good orchestral arrangement IMO.

(as you were)

Do you know I’d never noticed it but there is something about 50’s French arrangements which really work e.g. the Piaf backing band who I always thought were terrific ...

[cloughie]

Do you know I’d never noticed it but there is something about 50’s French arrangements which really work e.g. the Piaf backing band who I always thought were terrific ...

Bobby Darin and Robbie Williams have used the La mer arrangements well and some of Jaques Brel’s have been excellent.

[DracoM]

To have shelved JRR for this seamless guff!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Bobby Darin and Robbie Williams have used the La mer arrangements well and some of Jaques Brel’s have been excellent.

I meant to include Brel’s band in the praise - fantastic pianist !

[Nick Armstrong]

To have shelved JRR for this seamless guff!

I always think of ‘seamless’ as a compliment...

It’s the random cack-handed stitching that’s part of the problem with this ramshackle patchwork, I think!

[french frank]

which has an amazingly good orchestral arrangement IMO.

(as you were)

Of course, the point I was making wasn't about somehow mixing 'dross' with yer 'igh class classical; the endless sequences of diifferent styles (even if exclusively 'classical') is what I think of as bird-brained. Though I'm sure there are some very intelliegent birds around. A programme that has the whole of Beethoven's Symph No 7 and the whole of Eine Alpensinfonie seems sufficiently 'innovative' for Radio 3 to warrant its 'Discovery and Innovation' title. I'm not sure whether I am in a small minority or one of a largely silent majority in being unable to listen to the rollercoaster of 6-min careering from pop to classical to film music to Charles Aznavour without feeling sick. Or 6-minute bursts of anything, before dashing off on to something completely different.

[oddoneout]

Well I'm still none the wiser as to what all this was about. In terms of discovery the recent series of programmes featuring(showcasing as they have it) the various BBC orchestras did a far better job, with many enjoyable concerts and broadcasts. As far as innovation went - where and what I would ask, although I suppose that as I didn't listen to much of the output perhaps I missed it. I did read the online guff though and couldn't see it there either. Perhaps I'm mistaken but I don't see that commissioning/performing new works is innovative, it's part of what they should be doing anyway.

[ardcarp]

Whilst agreeing with most of the sentiments expressed, I did rather enjoy Walton's Belshazzar's Feast popping up somewhere in the mix on Saturday morning. A great performance with Andrew Davis at the helm. God knows why everything has to be lumped together under this silly title.

[oddoneout]

Whilst agreeing with most of the sentiments expressed, I did rather enjoy Walton's Belshazzar's Feast popping up somewhere in the mix. A great performance with Andrew Davis at the helm.

I think it would be possible for many of us to find an item we liked somewhere in the weekend - but I'm sure we could have enjoyed them just as much if they had been part of various standard concert type broadcasts, rather than picking the occasional edible bit out of the whole weekend's curate's egg?

[Roslynmuse]

I think it would be possible for many of us to find an item we liked somewhere in the weekend - but I'm sure we could have enjoyed them just as much if they had been part of various standard concert type broadcasts, rather than picking the occasional edible bit out of the whole weekend's curate's egg?

If anything, the interesting items become less so, merely flowing with the rest of the grey slurry rather than standing out as significant events. We will all have our own ideas about which pieces are worth seeking out. I did a search for Grace Williams' Missa Cambrensis - today's repeat was part of a concert entirely devoted to her music from 2016 and I see no merit in ripping it from that context and putting it in between Bridge's There is a Willow... and Piazzolla's Libertango. And if your interest is Bridge or Piazzolla I doubt whether Grace Williams will make you listen to them with new ears.