Discovery and Innovation weekend

[french frank]

... and Piazzolla's Libertango

One of his works that gets the most plays on R3 (13 times in the past 365 days according to Andrew's database)! I can see that we are being manipulated into checking the playlists after broadcasts and listening later on Sounds (after fiddling with the slider to find the item we want because the marker dots have now been removed). So R3 becomes less of a 'live radio station' and more of a musical market stall where you pick and choose the items you like and listen when convenient. Another one of those. And not the most convenient.

[cloughie]

One of his works that gets the most plays on R3 (13 times in the past 365 days according to Andrew's database)! I can see that we are being manipulated into checking the playlists after broadcasts and listening later on Sounds (after fiddling with the slider to find the item we want because the marker dots have now been removed). So R3 becomes less of a 'live radio station' and more of a musical market stall where you pick and choose the items you like and listen when convenient. Another one of those. And not the most convenient.

Seeking out the grain from the chaff!

[Frances_iom]

I'm sorry but all of you are missing the big picture - just like the"Third Program" R3 is dead though some small sections are still on life support but basically it is brain dead - the Third died because the culture that gave rise to and accepted its norms is dead (and in many ways was transient the English have never liked intellectuals) - R3 is dead (or dying) because the economic basis of its being is disappearing (ie a small amount of money generously donated by a rich mass TV channel) - there is a market for 'classical music' just as there is a market for intelligent books, discussions etc but not a mass market that can be driven by consumer capitalism.

[cloughie]

I'm sorry but all of you are missing the big picture - just like the"Third Program" R3 is dead though some small sections are still on life support but basically it is brain dead - the Third died because the culture that gave rise to and accepted its norms is dead (and in many ways was transient the English have never liked intellectuals) - R3 is dead (or dying) because the economic basis of its being is disappearing (ie a small amount of money generously donated by a rich mass TV channel) - there is a market for 'classical music' just as there is a market for intelligent books, discussions etc but not a mass market that can be driven by consumer capitalism.

There is a mass market for classical music but not necessarily the classical music we know and love.

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/classical-artist-albums-chart/

[french frank]

There is a mass market for classical music but not necessarily the classical music we know and love.

https://www.officialcharts.com/chart...-albums-chart/

One might also ask 'How is 'mass market' defined?' Is BBC Radio nan Gàidheal aimed at a mass market? The Asian Network? BBC Radio Cymru? They are aimed at specific audiences, not providing a service and then altering it to get 'a wider range of people' listening. Elementary school Welsh for learners not for fluent native speakers.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm sorry but all of you are missing the big picture - just like the"Third Program" R3 is dead though some small sections are still on life support but basically it is brain dead - the Third died because the culture that gave rise to and accepted its norms is dead (and in many ways was transient the English have never liked intellectuals) - R3 is dead (or dying) because the economic basis of its being is disappearing (ie a small amount of money generously donated by a rich mass TV channel) - there is a market for 'classical music' just as there is a market for intelligent books, discussions etc but not a mass market that can be driven by consumer capitalism.

I’m not quite so pessimistic. I agree that the broad intellectual culture that supported the Third Programme has gone but at the same time there has never been easier access to that culture though things like cheap CD’s , streaming, ebooks , JSTOR. Last time I looked more book titles are published in the UK than any other country (except Iran ) . New art galleries are opening all over the UK and there are as many symphony orchestras (according to Wiki) in the UK as in Germany. London ( pre - covid) is indisputably the world centre of classical music and second , after Los Angeles , in pop/rock music .The UK has to use that awful phrase the second most successful “creative industries “:sector in the world (though a lot of it is tripe not all of it is ). I haven’t even mentioned the Theatre - the recent streams of Uncle Vanya , Frankenstein , The Cherry Orchard - what other nation can do that?

[DracoM]

<< It’s the random cack-handed stitching that’s part of the problem with this ramshackle patchwork, I think! >>

..........which very succinctly sums up this 'weekend'
If you wanted to draw attention to R3's programming poverty of imagination and inevitable detritus, I cannot think of a more graphic way of doing it.
..............and to make it totally clear, trumpet it, and give the 'celebration' a lame name.

All In Plain Sight.

[vinteuil]

- what other nation can do that?

" —They order, said I, this matter better in France.— "

(Laurence Sterne [1713–1768] 'A Sentimental Journey through France and Italy', opening sentence )




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[oddoneout]

It’s the random cack-handed stitching that’s part of the problem with this ramshackle patchwork, I think!

As Draco says that sums up the weekend, but I don't see why it had to be so bad. The expertise and experience exist to put together themed programmes of music and yes I realise that Covid has made things difficult, but at this stage of dealing with those difficulties and given what was being put together I don't accept that as an excuse in this case for something that was possibly poorly conceived but was definitely poorly executed. This goes into the "How not to do it " category with a big red " Must do better". There is a difference between not agreeing with the premise (River of Sound) and thus not liking what is broadcast, and the problems with this exercise which seem to have annoyed and frustrated across the board; unanimity in such circumstances is hardly a positive as far as I'm concerned.

[Frances_iom]

the large response to the move of IS from the oft despised breakfast show drew more response than any critical look at the trajectory R3 is on - just one sign that the intellectual base for the need of a third program replacement has long gone - all that the mass want is easy listening 'curated' by those who won't upset their rose tinted view of the shambles into which R3 and in fact the country has descended.

[oddoneout]

the large response to the move of IS from the oft despised breakfast show drew more response than any critical look at the trajectory R3 is on - just one sign that the intellectual base for the need of a third program replacement has long gone - all that the mass want is easy listening 'curated' by those who won't upset their rose tinted view of the shambles into which R3 and in fact the country has descended.

Not sure that drawing such conclusions from this forum is a good idea - bit like those surveys that use a very small group of self-selecting participants?

[Serial_Apologist]

There is a mass market for classical music but not necessarily the classical music we know and love.

https://www.officialcharts.com/chart...-albums-chart/

Interesting to se that Pat Metheny's new "Road to the Sun" - a collaboration between a famous jazz guitarist and less well-known classical guitarist - is NO 1 currently, as this album was briefly reviewed on Saturday's J to Z, and would doubtless have had many a jazz fan scratching his or her head as to why it should have been on a jazz programme.

[Serial_Apologist]

I’m not quite so pessimistic. I agree that the broad intellectual culture that supported the Third Programme has gone but at the same time there has never been easier access to that culture though things like cheap CD’s , streaming, ebooks , JSTOR. Last time I looked more book titles are published in the UK than any other country (except Iran ) . New art galleries are opening all over the UK and there are as many symphony orchestras (according to Wiki) in the UK as in Germany. London ( pre - covid) is indisputably the world centre of classical music and second , after Los Angeles , in pop/rock music .The UK has to use that awful phrase the second most successful “creative industries “:sector in the world (though a lot of it is tripe not all of it is ). I haven’t even mentioned the Theatre - the recent streams of Uncle Vanya , Frankenstein , The Cherry Orchard - what other nation can do that?

Gone, though, is the culture of the old Radio 3 which offered guidance of the sort which privileges and informs the knowledgeability of our best discussions here: just chucking cheap CDs, streamings and ebooks etc on the jumble sale table is tantamount to putting books on the world's religions from any and every viewpoint on the table and telling the uninformed public that it's all there for your choice.

[Frances_iom]

... just chucking cheap CDs, streamings and ebooks etc on the jumble sale table is tantamount to putting books on the world's religions from any and every viewpoint on the table and telling the uninformed public that it's all there for your choice.

S_A you have it in one - The now despised Reithian approach of "educate + entertain" has disappeared from an increasingly commercial BBC which has swung to the instant, so-called 'knowledge' of the internet without any clear distinction of junk, falsity or authority.

[vinteuil]

- the Third died because the culture that gave rise to and accepted its norms is dead (and in many ways was transient the English have never liked intellectuals) - R3 is dead (or dying) because the economic basis of its being is disappearing (ie a small amount of money generously donated by a rich mass TV channel) - there is a market for 'classical music' just as there is a market for intelligent books, discussions etc but not a mass market that can be driven by consumer capitalism.

... I share a fair amount of Frances_iom's point of view. But I think the immediate post-WWII period was exceptional - we benefited so much from the intellectual powerhouse of the refugees from Europe, and of a 'seriousness' and enthusiasm for improvement shown in things like the 1944 Education Act, the Festival of Britain, pelican books, Pevsner, Hans Keller, Isaiah Berlin and the like - a period that is gone for ever. My childhood of the 1950s was rooted in this, but I know that that time is past




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