Celebrity Choice - the latest erosion?

[french frank]

Yes indeed - at home I usually precede it with ‘Lapres-midi’ as a starter for a fuller Debussy experience!

Sorry, next up is Fats Waller singing Ain't Misbehavin'. Followed by the Overture to the Marriage of Figaro.

[oddoneout]

R3 has painted itself into a corner through its remit having become so narrow - it is vulnerable to fashion, which has swung away from regarding classical music of cultural importance. When I started listening to the station in the late 70’s it was far more eclectic with, for example, weekly discussions on scientific issues chaired by John Maddox. There is nothing of this calibre on R3 now, nor on R4 where science is treated in a magazine format or is personality driven. Free Thinking somehow does not cut the mustard, even though it should do, on paper at least. It could be the presenters used that are the fault (Rana Mitta being the honourable exception). R3’s plays have declined in importance, through being scheduled at inappropriate times and, sadly, not being of the quality they once were (the rot set in about 15 years ago). I still enjoy the jazz output (which has nevertheless become less interesting), and Words and Music for its eclecticism. But as a station that has any influence on my learning or hearing anything new, it is fading to dark.

It's my view that lack of substance is endemic across radio and television. So much seems to be superficial, and often ill-informed, that I have rather stopped expecting to learn from much of what is broadcast.

[Serial_Apologist]

Sorry, next up is Fats Waller singing Ain't Misbehavin'. Followed by the Overture to the Marriage of Figaro.

Imagine how cleverly Radio 3 schedulers could have sandwiched a Fats Waller number influenced by Debussy in there between "L'après-midi" and "La Mer". E.g.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLR1JUjPGWw

... Rather than "Ain't Misbehavin'".

[eighthobstruction]

....do musicians get any royalties for concert recording repeats....?

[Ein Heldenleben]

....do musicians get any royalties for concert recording repeats....?

Depends on the contract but the basic answer is yes ( but not BBC a in-house orchs).

[Serial_Apologist]

Depends on the contract but the basic answer is yes ( but not BBC a in-house orchs).

The irony of which being the BBC's insisting on huge payments being made for musicians (I'm thinking of jazz musicians) to put out recordings of broadcasts they have made for the BBC as private recordings under their own name.

There are ways, but.... nuff said!

[cloughie]

Sorry, next up is Fats Waller singing Ain't Misbehavin'. Followed by the Overture to the Marriage of Figaro.

Better irony if it was followed Don Giovanni Ov, who was misbehavin’!

[Belgrove]

... That might be Radio 4's province now, rather than Radio 3's, but from what I'm hearing you don't get it there either.

Meekly ceding ground to R4 is part of R3’s problem. R3 should be out there fighting for new listeners who require something challenging, informative, novel and of significance in the widest sense. And that is more than just playing classical music. The proportion of the nation educated to degree level is the highest it has ever been, so there should be a large constituency who are able to appreciate and be in search of a broader intellectual diet. There would be a justification for the New Generation Thinkers were they a part of a broad cast of intellectual purveyors. But that is all there is, it is not of sufficiently high calibre, and too narrow in terms of its remit. A succession of Directors have allowed R3 to become a depleted museum, its prize exhibits being ransacked or put into deep storage. It has filled its empty vitrines with day-glo replacements with all the appeal and sustenance of bubble gum.

[french frank]

R3 should be out there fighting for new listeners who require something challenging, informative, novel and of significance in the widest sense.

I completely agree with all that. But the late Humphrey Carpenter wrote something to the effect that the BBC had never sat down to define what a cultural network should do, or accepted that if such a network was to 'do its job properly' it would only ever have a small audience - but that that audience mattered.

The BBC, to the contrary, believes that that audience is too small to bother with, and it doesn't think it worth while to attempt to develop and expand such an audience. As the government said about the Erasmus scheme, "It doesn't provide value for money." Small audiences are expensive, large audiences are cheap = 'value for money' - the problem with knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

It may well be that their 'audience research' and focus groups bear out their opinion that such an audience is almost imperceptible. The problem is: the BBC ought to think that that matters - and do something about it. But it doesn't.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The irony of which being the BBC's insisting on huge payments being made for musicians (I'm thinking of jazz musicians) to put out recordings of broadcasts they have made for the BBC as private recordings under their own name.

There are ways, but.... nuff said!

That surprises me as the musician should retain the copyright in the performance and if an original composition the work itself . But I am not a copyright lawyer.

[Belgrove]

I completely agree with all that. But the late Humphrey Carpenter wrote something to the effect that the BBC had never sat down to define what a cultural network should do, or accepted that if such a network was to 'do its job properly' it would only ever have a small audience - but that that audience mattered.

The BBC, to the contrary, believes that that audience is too small to bother with, and it doesn't think it worth while to attempt to develop and expand such an audience. As the government said about the Erasmus scheme, "It doesn't provide value for money." Small audiences are expensive, large audiences are cheap = 'value for money' - the problem with knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

It may well be that their 'audience research' and focus groups bear out their opinion that such an audience is almost imperceptible. The problem is: the BBC ought to think that that matters - and do something about it. But it doesn't.

That shows that the former movers and shakers in the BBC had the intellectual breadth, depth and confidence to formulate and promote a taste for what a ‘civilised’ person ought to know. Carpenter instigated, inter alia, the worthwhile Night Waves, which has morphed into the denuded Free Thinking despite having ostensibly the same rubric and mostly the same presenters. It has lost its rigour, and with it the credibility it once had.

The outcomes of ‘audience research’ is highly dependent on the questions asked. If there is a dastardly agenda to dilute or sideline content in search of higher ratings, then any heirs of Humphrey Carpenter and his ilk, should they exist, need to step up and fight their corner. It would seem that we, the listeners, have little power and so must shut up and eat our greens, or just go elsewhere.

(BTW, just been watching a BBC4 programme on Titian, which is rather good, so there is still some gold dust in all that silt).

[cloughie]

New Zealand comedian, actress and TV presenter. However, the fact that we - or some of us - hadn't heard of her is neither here nor there. Even the ones we have heard of don't enthral much.

That said, one of the most memorable - for me - editions of Private Passions was with John Bird, also a comedian. But he impressed me deeply with his knowledge and enthusiasm for classical music. So here the question is: have they been chosen just because they're willing celebrities who are flattered by being asked to 'curate' a concert? Or are they very knowledgeable? Another of those, 'Well, listen to it and you'll find out' programmes which risk being a waste of time.

Caught Rose Matafeo on A quick flip of channels whilst switching off yesterday evening - Dreadful!

[french frank]

Caught Rose Matafeo on A quick flip of channels whilst switching off yesterday evening - Dreadful!

To me, life is funnier than stand-up comedians

[cloughie]

To me, life is funnier than stand-up comedians

True, most of it could not be made up!

[Serial_Apologist]

To me, life is funnier than stand-up comedians

You're welcome to contribute to the "Funny thing happened on the way to the Forum" thread, you know!