Tearjerker, Downtown Symphony, Piano Flow, Happy Harmonies and other Saturday padding

[french frank]

The saddest sentence I've yet read on the Forum.

We're all individuals and people will still pick up any crumbs from the table that they find tasty. Life's too short to bother with radio as far as this ex-listener is concerned. Plenty of other things to do - I've even ceased to miss it. I just check BBC News Online, along with sundry other news outlets.

[oddoneout]

You've blown the gaff now, AuntDaisy. That page will go behind a 'paywall' soon (only indy broadcast companies allowed to log in and read it). They'd already stopped publishing their analyses of the latest Rajar figures. Gave away too much.

But the short answer to all this ********ing to younger audiences is this, from Ofcom's 2019 Annual Report:

"The BBC may not be sustainable in its current form, if it fails to regain younger audiences who are increasingly tuning out of its services."

New programmes, pop presenters, megamillion downloads and On Demand requests, all the facts and figures can be reported back to the BBC's lords and masters.

I've downloaded both the meditation pitch and the style guide. Both are nightmarish. The meditation blurb suggests to me that R3 is now seen as a useful empty car park for experiments.

[AuntDaisy]

You've blown the gaff now, AuntDaisy. That page will go behind a 'paywall' soon (only indy broadcast companies allowed to log in and read it). They'd already stopped publishing their analyses of the latest Rajar figures. Gave away too much.

But the short answer to all this ********ing to younger audiences is this, from Ofcom's 2019 Annual Report:

"The BBC may not be sustainable in its current form, if it fails to regain younger audiences who are increasingly tuning out of its services."

New programmes, pop presenters, megamillion downloads and On Demand requests, all the facts and figures can be reported back to the BBC's lords and masters.

Apologies for putting my foot in it. Perhaps we should start up an Indie FoR3 company to produce 1 hour meditation programmes?

[antongould]

The saddest sentence I've yet read on the Forum.

Indeed

[LMcD]

Apologies for putting my foot in it. Perhaps we should start up an Indie FoR3 company to produce 1 hour meditation programmes?

Might be worth thinking about.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Just picking up on few points . The download figures will be way more accurate than Rajar figures but what they won’t tell you is the age of the downloader. I would be surprised if the RAJAR figures would either - there just isn’t a big enough sample size - in fact at the moment there is no survey at all. Despite the “I never listen to any of it comments “there is in fact plenty of excellent classical music on R3 with some very strong lunchtime and afternoon concerts and live relays at 7.30 in the last few months. I think I’m in a position to say that as I’ve been listening since the sixties and listen from about 9 to 9 each day . ( full disclosure I briefly worked on R3 in the early 80’z but otherwise have no connection).
There have been a lot of archive repeats recently , particularly in the 7.30 slot , probably because of the global dearth of live performance but there is still plenty of excellent stuff.
Like it or not we live in a culture with a short attention span - the culture of the playlist and the download and unless R3 draws a new audience in its doomed . It faces exactly the same challenge as organisations like the RSPB and National Trust . They look at their membership profile and can see extinction looming . There is the pig in the pipe argument ( a big population bulge from 1957 to 1967 resulting in a bulge of 64 - 74 year olds over the next decade ) . These are the people with a lot of leisure time who consume more TV and Radio and join organisations- but eventually they will die out. There are plenty of under 25’s who barely consume BBC / ITV / C4 and 5 services at all - all mainstream media organisations face exactly the same challenge. If you want a culture completely dominated by YouTube , Facebook et al one sure way of doing it is undermining mainstream media. Unfortunately that is the way we are heading.

[Bryn]

I guess they'll use the "reliable" BBC SOUNDS figures and extrapolate out from them based on total number of streams. Take two points & draw a straight line through & beyond them - what could possibly go wrong?

Anyway it rather smugly states that "BBC Sounds is also currently the biggest platform provider of podcasts in the UK.", so it must be right.

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that, by using freely available third-party software, one can download without having to log in to stream, either. One just needs the relevant programme code from the online listing, for which there is no need to log in in order to copy.

[antongould]

Just picking up on few points . The download figures will be way more accurate than Rajar figures but what they won’t tell you is the age of the downloader. I would be surprised if the RAJAR figures would either - there just isn’t a big enough sample size - in fact at the moment there is no survey at all. Despite the “I never listen to any of it comments “there is in fact plenty of excellent classical music on R3 with some very strong lunchtime and afternoon concerts and live relays at 7.30 in the last few months. I think I’m in a position to say that as I’ve been listening since the sixties and listen from about 9 to 9 each day . ( full disclosure I briefly worked on R3 in the early 80’z but otherwise have no connection).
There have been a lot of archive repeats recently , particularly in the 7.30 slot , probably because of the global dearth of live performance but there is still plenty of excellent stuff.
Like it or not we live in a culture with a short attention span - the culture of the playlist and the download and unless R3 draws a new audience in its doomed . It faces exactly the same challenge as organisations like the RSPB and National Trust . They look at their membership profile and can see extinction looming . There is the pig in the pipe argument ( a big population bulge from 1957 to 1967 resulting in a bulge of 64 - 74 year olds over the next decade ) . These are the people with a lot of leisure time who consume more TV and Radio and join organisations- but eventually they will die out. There are plenty of under 25’s who barely consume BBC / ITV / C4 and 5 services at all - all mainstream media organisations face exactly the same challenge. If you want a culture completely dominated by YouTube , Facebook et al one sure way of doing it is undermining mainstream media. Unfortunately that is the way we are heading.

IMVVHO a very good summary of where we are …. I feel R3 has to be seen to be trying to attract a younger audience …. If it doesn’t its end will happen much more quickly …. Sadly all we are probably doing here is arguing about where the deckchairs should be placed on the Titanic

[Ein Heldenleben]

IMVVHO a very good summary of where we are …. I feel R3 has to be seen to be trying to attract a younger audience …. If it doesn’t its end will happen much more quickly …. Sadly all we are probably doing here is arguing about where the deckchairs should be placed on the Titanic

As long as the band plays on I’ll go down with the ship….

[AuntDaisy]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that, by using freely available third-party software, one can download without having to log in to stream, either. One just needs the relevant programme code from the online listing, for which there is no need to log in in order to copy.

Good point.
But, I can see a day when even, say, GetIplayer needs to go via a BBC login - they'll protect the (DASH) streams it taps in to.
I wonder how many youngsters access SOUNDS/iPlayer from a PC/Mac/Linux rather than a mobile?

[antongould]

As long as the band plays on I’ll go down with the ship….

As will I ……

[french frank]

Despite the “I never listen to any of it comments “there is in fact plenty of excellent classical music on R3 with some very strong lunchtime and afternoon concerts and live relays at 7.30 in the last few months. I think I’m in a position to say that as I’ve been listening since the sixties and listen from about 9 to 9 each day .

Oh, yes, as I made clear in #661, we are all individuals with different tastes, tolerances and situations. I didn't listen to radio at all once I left home in my late teens. I've now reverted to that situation. I don't have that need state . I cannot see how a programme like Breakfast can be tolerable if presented by someone called Petroc but is unlistenable if presented by someone called Elizabeth. To me, it's the same programme. For the programmes being discussed in this thread they are a stage worse in that the music repels.

But if Radio 3 as a classical music station disappears, I don't think it will be my fault for not listening: it will be evolutionary forces and the BBC thinking its survival is more important.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Oh, yes, as I made clear in #661, we are all individuals with different tastes, tolerances and situations. I didn't listen to radio at all once I left home in my late teens. I've now reverted to that situation. I don't have that need state . I cannot see how a programme like Breakfast can be tolerable if presented by someone called Petroc but is unlistenable if presented by someone called Elizabeth. To me, it's the same programme. For the programmes being discussed in this thread they are a stage worse in that the music repels.

But if Radio 3 as a classical music station disappears, I don't think it will be my fault for not listening: it will be evolutionary forces and the BBC thinking its survival is more important.

French - If I may be so familiar - I don’t listen to Breakfast a lot either. But I gather from the Breakfast strand that Petroc’s recent Yorkshire tour was very highly thought of by many on the forum and it struck me as the very distillation of what public service is broadcasting is about (from the two excerpts I heard ) Aren’t you in danger of letting your desire for recovering an Elysian past obscuring the achievements and beauties of the present ? A bit like Thomas Hardy ?

[AuntDaisy]

French - If I may be so familiar - I don’t listen to Breakfast a lot either. But I gather from the Breakfast strand that Petroc’s recent Yorkshire tour was very highly thought of by many on the forum and it struck me as the very distillation of what public service is broadcasting is about (from the two excerpts I heard ) Aren’t you in danger of letting your desire for recovering an Elysian past obscuring the achievements and beauties of the present ? A bit like Thomas Hardy ?

I usually avoid Breakfast, but heard parts of the Petroc's Yorkshire tour while we were on holiday in Pembrokeshire - I enjoyed it, but I do originate from that part of the world & some parts were familiar.

Nothing wrong with Thomas Hardy or rose-tinted specs. While some of us might hark back to an Elysian past, we do seem to be living in a Distopian present.

Your RSPB and National Trust comments were very interesting.

[oddoneout]

Oh, yes, as I made clear in #661, we are all individuals with different tastes, tolerances and situations. I didn't listen to radio at all once I left home in my late teens. I've now reverted to that situation. I don't have that need state . I cannot see how a programme like Breakfast can be tolerable if presented by someone called Petroc but is unlistenable if presented by someone called Elizabeth. To me, it's the same programme. For the programmes being discussed in this thread they are a stage worse in that the music repels.

But if Radio 3 as a classical music station disappears, I don't think it will be my fault for not listening: it will be evolutionary forces and the BBC thinking its survival is more important.

Perhaps try thinking of it( simply as an exercise in understanding why it matters to some, I accept that you don't want to listen) as a piece of music that can be played in different ways some of which you will enjoy/appreciate, others not? The format of the programme may be the same but the component parts will differ depending on who is presenting, and the approach and characteristics of that presenter can colour how the content is received. Bit like the various HIPP v modern discussions and disagreements.