Tearjerker, Downtown Symphony, Piano Flow, Happy Harmonies and other Saturday padding

[french frank]

March hasn't finished yet and already we've had more non-classical on R3 this year than in the whole of 2011 & 2012, with 'tearjerker' & 'downtime symphony' making a 'fair' contribution. If things continue at this rate it will be at least another 15% increase in non-classical on top of last year's record, which could mean that non-classical pieces on R3 would have increased 4.25 times from 10 years ago.

To mention again this: Why are more young people listening to classical music?

"Classical goes well with other genres"

"Is it OK to add classical tracks to your regular playlists? “Yeah, definitely!” says Jess, “I think it's something that needs to happen MORE! As humans, we seem to be wired for categorisation. We’ll try and shoebox everything, but for music that just crushes breadth of experience and open-mindedness.”

So why don't they add classical tracks to their 'regular' playlists on other stations, rather than adding 'popular' (broad definition) tracks to classical playlists on Radio 3?

Are they obtuse or malign?

[teamsaint]

But it wasn't a random choice, it was to do with her connection with violinist Lisa Batiashvili. Not at all the same thing as the random sequence I heard from someone's device on Saturday morning, purporting to be a R3 programme.

I have to say, with respect Odders, that I really don’t care whether it was random or not.

And even allowing for the connection with LB,which I did hear at the time, it was terrible.

I have probably missed the point.

[oddoneout]

To mention again this: Why are more young people listening to classical music?

"Classical goes well with other genres"

"Is it OK to add classical tracks to your regular playlists? “Yeah, definitely!” says Jess, “I think it's something that needs to happen MORE! As humans, we seem to be wired for categorisation. We’ll try and shoebox everything, but for music that just crushes breadth of experience and open-mindedness.”

So why don't they add classical tracks to their 'regular' playlists on other stations, rather than adding 'popular' (broad definition) tracks to classical playlists on Radio 3?

Are they obtuse or malign?

In some respects I think this has been going on for a long time - certainly when I was a student I came across others who would cherry pick from classical music, such as the house mate and a movement from LvB 7 which was the soundtrack to the film "A touch of class". She knew that was only part of a much bigger whole as I had a recording which I frequently played, but wasn't interested in or engaged by the rest.
So yes a sensible approach would be to allow some classical tracks to infiltrate the other platforms, at least on an equal basis to the infiltration of R3 by what is considered non-R3 content.
In my opinion if the Beeb was doing its job properly(education innit, sniff) it would pick up on that window and open it a little more by use of short slots providing more of the context of a popular classical track - the composer, the work from which it comes, historical background, whatever. Nothing heavy or longwinded and presented by someone - possibly slightly unlikely(along the,lines of I didn't know s/he was into that) - who can explain things well without being alienating and, most importantly, on primetime slots. Time was when it wasn't considered unusual to have - shock horror - a "classical" musician performing on a primetime chatshow. Would it really be such a turn off for the viewing public, even these days, to be exposed to such things again? Why is music considered such a risk compared with history, physics, archaeology etc which are presented, in the expectation(duly fulfilled) that the public will watch, enjoy and come back for more.
Sorry, bit of a ramble, but the lack of even the smallest amount of vision infuriates me. It sometimes seems that we haven't really moved on from "Aunty Beeb knows best", in fact in my opinion we've gone backwards as regards the quality and quantity of music content.

[oddoneout]

I have to say, with respect Odders, that I really don’t care whether it was random or not.

And even allowing for the connection with LB,which I did hear at the time, it was terrible.

I have probably missed the point.

Don't think you've missed the point as such, I was just saying that there was at least some thought and/or justification for the choice - and it was only a very brief part of the whole . Whereas the dumbtime selection I heard on Saturday...
As to being terrible, well I wouldn't go that far. Whether it should be on R3 is another argument, and muddied by being in the context of a morning schedule programme which means it isn't genuine R3 anyway.

[Serial_Apologist]

Perhaps we should organise demos outside Broadcasting House (and whatever the HQ in Manchester is called) with placards which read, "LESS POP ON RADIO 3, MORE CLASSICAL ON RADIOS 1 & 2"

[LMcD]

To mention again this: Why are more young people listening to classical music?

"Classical goes well with other genres"

"Is it OK to add classical tracks to your regular playlists? “Yeah, definitely!” says Jess, “I think it's something that needs to happen MORE! As humans, we seem to be wired for categorisation. We’ll try and shoebox everything, but for music that just crushes breadth of experience and open-mindedness.”

So why don't they add classical tracks to their 'regular' playlists on other stations, rather than adding 'popular' (broad definition) tracks to classical playlists on Radio 3?

Are they obtuse or malign?

I've decided to ignore the results of a recent survey which claimed that people who are wired for categorisation have a much greater chance of avoiding (a) Covid, (b) arthritis and (c) loss of taste - musical and general.
I suspect the answer to your final question is 'both'.
In the early 1960s there was a weekly 60-minute programme on either the Light Programme or the Home Service which featured a complete 'classical' work, and the day on which I heard Elgar's 2nd symphony for the first time in that particular slot marked the beginning of my journey of musical discovery.

[cloughie]

I've decided to ignore the results of a recent survey which claimed that people who are wired for categorisation have a much greater chance of avoiding (a) Covid, (b) arthritis and (c) loss of taste - musical and general.
I suspect the answer to your final question is 'both'.
In the early 1960s there was a weekly 60-minute programme on either the Light Programme or the Home Service which featured a complete 'classical' work, and the day on which I heard Elgar's 2nd symphony for the first time in that particular slot marked the beginning of my journey of musical discovery.

Was it the Home Service ‘Music to Remember’ which if I remember was one of the few Concert ptprogrammes retained on R4 after R3 started as THE classical station.

[oddoneout]

I've decided to ignore the results of a recent survey which claimed that people who are wired for categorisation have a much greater chance of avoiding (a) Covid, (b) arthritis and (c) loss of taste - musical and general.
I suspect the answer to your final question is 'both'.
In the early 1960s there was a weekly 60-minute programme on either the Light Programme or the Home Service which featured a complete 'classical' work, and the day on which I heard Elgar's 2nd symphony for the first time in that particular slot marked the beginning of my journey of musical discovery.

As has been mentioned many times before this is an arrangement that those of us who listen to EC would be happy to see introduced for the last hour of the morning as a transition into the "proper R3" afternoon offerings.

[LMcD]

Was it the Home Service ‘Music to Remember’ which if I remember was one of the few Concert ptprogrammes retained on R4 after R3 started as THE classical station.

I think that's right - the BBC Genome confirms that this was still being broadcast in the early 1960s, often introduced by Alec (NOT Eric!) Robinson.

[french frank]

As has been mentioned many times before this is an arrangement that those of us who listen to EC would be happy to see introduced for the last hour of the morning as a transition into the "proper R3" afternoon offerings.

It was only with this present controller that EC's full-length work was dropped. It was a feature of the programme. An elderly friend who took Radio Times used to mark the specific works he wanted to hear and tune in on that day (couldn't stand Breakfast or the quizzes &c). When they dropped that, he stopped listening. I can't understand how a programme with the luxury of three whole hours doesn't find time for one longer work. I presume marketing has been done and potential 'gateway' programme listeners say they want short pieces.

It's the current balance that seems so wrong: so many programmes made up of short pieces. Another thought I remember when CFM started and Robin Ray said it wouldn't be competition for Radio 3, though CFM listeners would gradually progress to Radio 3. Few did - they preferred CFM. That ought to be a lesson for managers who think the 'gateway' listeners will gradually start listening to the afternoon and evening concerts and become a 'knowledgeable audience'.

[Roslynmuse]

I think that's right - the BBC Genome confirms that this was still being broadcast in the early 1960s, often introduced by Alec (NOT Eric!) Robinson.

Music to Remember carried on into the 1980s on Radio 4 - Sundays at 8pm. Usually studio recordings by the BBC orchestras.

[cloughie]

Music to Remember carried on into the 1980s on Radio 4 - Sundays at 8pm. Usually studio recordings by the BBC orchestras.

Probably kept it on 4, whilst drama was on R3.

[Serial_Apologist]

It was only with this present controller that EC's full-length work was dropped. It was a feature of the programme. An elderly friend who took Radio Times used to mark the specific works he wanted to hear and tune in on that day (couldn't stand Breakfast or the quizzes &c). When they dropped that, he stopped listening. I can't understand how a programme with the luxury of three whole hours doesn't find time for one longer work. I presume marketing has been done and potential 'gateway' programme listeners say they want short pieces.

One could imagine a young newcomer, with the BBC's attitude to "education" as applied today to Radio 3 morning programming, saying, "Well I never realised that for the whole of Beethoven's Fifth I'd have to sit there for 35 minutes!"

[oddoneout]

One could imagine a young newcomer, with the BBC's attitude to "education" as applied today to Radio 3 morning programming, saying, "Well I never realised that for the whole of Beethoven's Fifth I'd have to sit there for 35 minutes!"

The variation on that is finding out that the big tunes from opera aren't on a collection of tracks of similar, but have to be hunted down within the whole work unless of course one goes for the 100 best tunes approach. This came up in an amusing article I read some time ago about how people stumbled upon " classical" music, and their attempts to follow up, but I've heard/read/seen similar more than once over the years.

[french frank]

One could imagine a young newcomer, with the BBC's attitude to "education" as applied today to Radio 3 morning programming, saying, "Well I never realised that for the whole of Beethoven's Fifth I'd have to sit there for 35 minutes!"

Yes, how customs change: in the 18th century concert-goers chatted and ate while a new Mozart piano concerto was played; in the 19th & 20th centuries they sat still and listened in silence; in the 21st century they listened to a variety of short pieces, each introduced by a presenter, interacting in a jolly manner with a semi-interested audience …