Tearjerker, Downtown Symphony, Piano Flow, Happy Harmonies and other Saturday padding

[AuntDaisy]

I don't think anyone intends 'moaning here' to be a means of getting results. Though nor do I think writing green ink letters (or using any other colour ink) to the press would be in any way effective. Nor writing to one's MP. Radio 3 has its reasons - if they achieve their aims it will carry on; if it fails they will try something else.

Letting off steam is good for mental health, mine at least. I think French Frank is right, it's unlikely to make any real difference - and TearJerker may help some of the many youngsters struggling under lockdown.
I just don't like the way that "Through the Night" is being eaten into, and I see it as the start of the rot that could lead to ultimate death knells (how's that for purple-ink prose?)

"Through the Night" is a reminder of how Radio 3 used to be - intelligent presenters introducing interesting & varied pieces of music - long may it prosper.

[oddoneout]

it is obliged to broadcast all content that it commissions on air first. The broadcast slot early on a Saturday morning was chosen because is a quiet and contemplative time at the beginning of a weekend where it might better fit the needs of all listeners.

This seems to me to explain a lot. Early Saturday morning is seen as a suitable graveyard slot where change will have minimal impact. It is patently not chosen with any idea of attracting its target audience to listen at that time(even during a pandemic and no access to Friday night socialising what young person is functioning at that time of day? Microscopic numbers of a miniscule group at best), any listening would be done at another time and in another way, so sacrificial lamb. Combined with the 'new' programmes on Saturday post midday it seems there's quite a lot of scheduling aimed at an audience that IMO a) does not already exist and b) will not materialise. Why does all this content have to be broadcast on R3,(is it actually a requirement, the email doesn't say so) how about spreading the joy over the other stations to broaden the audience catching that it deems so important. Again sacrificial lamb theory I suspect - R3 audience small and can be ignored. Possibly augmented by 'going through the motions' syndrome, ie "we don't believe this but we have to make an attempt".
As for the addition of this Downtime Symphony - FCOL it's not even music as such

An hour of wind-down music to help you press pause and reset your mind - with chilled sounds of orchestral, jazz, ambient, and lo-fi beats.

, just "sounds" ie snippets.
Steam duly vented - tends to be higher pressure on Saturdays as it's a no-listen zone for me.

[Jonathan]

I caught some of the "Downtime Symphony" this morning. Rule 1 of presenting should be: DO NOT TALK OVER THE END OF A PIECE - she spolied the end of the lovely slow movement of the Brahms 1st symphony at about 20 to 7.

[oddoneout]

I caught some of the "Downtime Symphony" this morning. Rule 1 of presenting should be: DO NOT TALK OVER THE END OF A PIECE - she spolied the end of the lovely slow movement of the Brahms 1st symphony at about 20 to 7.

Because it's just a sound; once it's done its job time to move on.

[french frank]

Because it's just a sound; once it's done its job time to move on.

There are so many occasions where music is - intended to be - the background to something else, that it has become rarer to think of it as the sole focus of attention. In films and television (but not theatre - yet?) it's the emotional background to the drama or the thematic background to a documentary, the background to eating in a restaurant, the background to chatting socially with friends, the accompaniment to doing something else at home or out with headphones on. The concept of a single, complete, piece of music of some length as something to listen to, carefully and in its entirety, has just been lost for most people.

[AuntDaisy]

I caught the start of "Downtime Symphony" - "Hello, I'm Celeste and you're listening to Downtime Symphony..." - and was thrilled to hear the start of a Bach Cello suite... and then the nightmare began.

The first two hours of the Swedish Notturno was a welcome retreat.

[Serial_Apologist]

Here's a list of what we poor Brits have missed on Through the Night.
Available to listen to on Euroclassic Notturno, e.g. https://sverigesradio.se/avsnitt/1647077
I love the Marais.

5:01 Joseph Haydn; Divertimento in C major, aka London Trio No 1 (Hob.4 No 1); Carol Wincenc (flute), Philip Setzer (violin), Carter Brey (cello)
5:10 Jean Sibelius; Petite Suite; Royal Academy of Music Brass Soloists
5:18 Hector Berlioz; Le Carnaval romain overture Op 9; Toronto Symphony Orchestra, Andrew Davis (conductor)
5:27 Marin Marais; La Sonnerie de Sainte-Genevieve du Mont de Paris; Ricercar Consort, Henri Ledroit (conductor)
5:36 Gabriel Faure; Elegie (Op.24) arr. for cello and orchestra; Shauna Rolston (cello), Edmonton Symphony Orchestra, Uri Mayer (conductor)
5:43 Adolf Schulz-Evler / Johann Strauss II; Concert arabesque on themes by Johann Strauss for piano; Benjamin Grosvenor (piano)
5:54 Maurice Ravel; Une Barque sur l'ocean; Trondheim Symphony Orchestra, Eivind Aadland (conductor)
6:02 Emilio de' Cavalieri & Girolamo Frescobaldi; Lamentations: Tertia Die; Profeti della Quinta
6:21 Ludwig van Beethoven; Piano Sonata no 5 in C minor, Op 10 no 1; Cedric Tiberghien (piano)
6:41 Richard Wagner; Siegfried Idyll; BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, Donald Runnicles (conductor)

https://www.ebu.ch/files/live/sites/...ary%202021.pdf

All that looks pretty 18 cert rated to me - certainly cert 15.

[Serial_Apologist]

There are so many occasions where music is - intended to be - the background to something else, that it has become rarer to think of it as the sole focus of attention. In films and television (but not theatre - yet?) it's the emotional background to the drama or the thematic background to a documentary, the background to eating in a restaurant, the background to chatting socially with friends, the accompaniment to doing something else at home or out with headphones on. The concept of a single, complete, piece of music of some length as something to listen to, carefully and in its entirety, has just been lost for most people.

One wonders if the composers writing such music would have bothered if future souls judged it only suitable as background sound.

[french frank]

One wonders if the composers writing such music would have bothered if future souls judged it only suitable as background sound.

Yes, we know that a lot of Mozart's music - serenades, divertimenti - was just for casual listening, a little light music, but however people actually behaved at the opera, for instance, talking to friends or even eating, that wasn't what the composer intended the music to accompany: the music serves the plot, which at least some of the audience would be following some of the time. Having mentioned the Masonic Funeral Music elsewhere, I can't think the music was composed in order to make people feel sad - to be a 'tearjerker', manipulate the emotions - but to serve the occasion.

[jayne lee wilson]

There are so many occasions where music is - intended to be - the background to something else, that it has become rarer to think of it as the sole focus of attention. In films and television (but not theatre - yet?) it's the emotional background to the drama or the thematic background to a documentary, the background to eating in a restaurant, the background to chatting socially with friends, the accompaniment to doing something else at home or out with headphones on. The concept of a single, complete, piece of music of some length as something to listen to, carefully and in its entirety, has just been lost for most people.

Surely the best film scores go way beyond that?

Gone with the Wind to Godfather, High Noon to Fistful of Dollars (Mexican Trumpets!), 2001 to the Guardians of the Galaxy (70s disco on a cassette tape) …..Gladiator…. or Spielberg classics like Jurassic Park or ET…….

Remember the Simon & Garfunkel songs with The Graduate….?

None of these films would be complete without their unique music. Its a vital part of their artistic impact; far more than background. The recurrence of the main musical ideas is often very carefully and movingly planned. (The T Rex crashing through the glass dome near the end of Jurassic Park, when the thrilling main trumpet tune recurs for the first time since the approach to the island)….

Star Wars has leitmotifs running through the whole vast sequence, varying and developing, attached to character/situation etc….

Somewhere between devoted or exclusive musical attention and background, but a distinctive artistic phenomenon; part of an artistic whole; the themes stay with you, hauntingly evocative of the film itself, for ever.

[french frank]

None of these films would be complete without their unique music. Its a vital part of their artistic impact; far more than background.

But isn't that the whole difference? The music was written FOR the films. I was referring back to Jonathan's comment: "Rule 1 of presenting should be: DO NOT TALK OVER THE END OF A PIECE - she spolied the end of the lovely slow movement of the Brahms 1st symphony at about 20 to 7." Brahms's symphony was not written to be talked over, or to accompany some other visual material. How you describe film music might be akin to the music of opera, but the point I made was:"The concept of a single, complete, piece of music of some length as something to listen to, carefully and in its entirety, has just been lost for most people."

[jayne lee wilson]

But isn't that the whole difference? The music was written FOR the films. I was referring back to Jonathan's comment: "Rule 1 of presenting should be: DO NOT TALK OVER THE END OF A PIECE - she spolied the end of the lovely slow movement of the Brahms 1st symphony at about 20 to 7." Brahms's symphony was not written to be talked over, or to accompany some other visual material. How you describe film music might be akin to the music of opera, but the point I made was:"The concept of a single, complete, piece of music of some length as something to listen to, carefully and in its entirety, has just been lost for most people."

Yes - film music is so often much more like opera. With the T Rex scene I mentioned, the music is telling you, glorying in, who the true hero is.
Spielberg said that he often cut his films to fit John Williams' music, which underlines their essentially distinctive nature...

"Most people"..... point taken, but....
Historically, hasn't the concept of devoted attentional listening often been quite exclusive? The chamber music of Schubert, Haydn, Mozart etc was often written for a close circle of friends and devotees....

Schoenberg and the Society for Private Performance.... many such examples, I'm sure....

[french frank]

Historically, hasn't the concept of devoted attentional listening often been quite exclusive? The chamber music of Schubert, Haydn, Mozart etc was often written for a close circle of friends and devotees....

In the 18th c it certainly was. I'm not among those who regret the 19th c (and indeed one might mention the arrival of the Proms) idea of the concert hall with the large audience of - if I may venture to say so - reverential listeners. There is nothing necessarily exclusive about this. Tickets are not sky high, compared with other musical events, and you appreciate the experience or you don't. Nothing else excludes other than that it gives them no enjoyment. I don't really buy the notion of 'snobbish audiences' putting people off attending, if they want to hear the music.

I have no supporting evidence whatsoever but I suspect younger generations, under 40, middle youth, say for example, also don't go to the theatre because they find sitting quietly for an hour or two oppressive. But theatre audiences don't tolerate people constantly whispering or getting out their smartphones, so why are classical concert-goers considered uptight and unreasonably intolerant?

[Ein Heldenleben]

In the 18th c it certainly was. I'm not among those who regret the 19th c (and indeed one might mention the arrival of the Proms) idea of the concert hall with the large audience of - if I may venture to say so - reverential listeners. There is nothing necessarily exclusive about this. Tickets are not sky high, compared with other musical events, and you appreciate the experience or you don't. Nothing else excludes other than that it gives them no enjoyment. I don't really buy the notion of 'snobbish audiences' putting people off attending, if they want to hear the music.

I have no supporting evidence whatsoever but I suspect younger generations, under 40, middle youth, say for example, also don't go to the theatre because they find sitting quietly for an hour or two oppressive. But theatre audiences don't tolerate people constantly whispering or getting out their smartphones, so why are classical concert-goers considered uptight and unreasonably intolerant?

Don’t underestimate younger audiences. I’ve been to many Shakespeare performances where the school age audience has sat in silence (teachers were there obvs) and been a lot quieter than the more (how can I put it tactfully ? ) bronchially challenged audiences of my age. I once went to a Ballet Rambert performance entirely danced to the reworked scores of Lutoslawski . The audience which was largely teenage girls and mothers was completely rapt throughout . If you’d put on a Lutoslawski concert it would have maybe half the numbers and a lot noisier

[french frank]

Don’t underestimate younger audiences. I’ve been to many Shakespeare performances where the school age audience has sat in silence (teachers were there obvs) and been a lot quieter than the more (how can I put it tactfully ? ) bronchially challenged audiences of my age.

I'm sure it depends on individuals. I said "with no supporting evidence" but that wasn't quite true. Two or three years ago I read a research paper which included the comments of school students who were taken to a performance of Othello. One conclusion was that they were far more attentive to the audience of "old people" than the play about which they appeared to have noticed little. One girl had mentioned members of the audience making her feel 'unwelcome' by glaring at her: she didn't say what she was doing to make them glare though I don't imagine that it was because she was sitting quietly and attentively. I think they were 14-15 year-olds, so I'm not sure Othello was one of the more interesting plays for them.