New season on Radio 3 to include two new classical music programmes

[Roehre]

What is worrying is that when young people become interested in classical music on their own accord, if Radio3 continued to be as it is, they won't have the best resource to feed and develop their interest and knowledge. And that will be very serious.

Doversoul, In my opinion this is the nail on its head.

And Suffolkcoastal's observation IMO shows a "way out" of this mire.

There is such a golden opportunity for R3 to work with and not against CFM, there is room for two classical stations but not for one that now openly tries to imitate the other in search of cheap ratings, by continually doing this R3 has now lost not only its integrity but also the respect of many of its staunchest listeners.

[antongould]

There is such a golden opportunity for R3 to work with and not against CFM, there is room for two classical stations

How exactly would you see this working Suffolkcoastal?

[french frank]

Since the current regime's decimation of the station began has the number of first-time listeners really improved that much?

I looked at the summary of responses to the Trust's public consultation on R3 (E&OE because I wasn't expecting to 'publish' the result!), and there seemed to be a higher number of listeners of two years' standing or less responding about R3 than about R4 and R7 - I think about 15% as against, hmmmm, memory lapse, 6-7% (?).

But whatever the number of new listeners, that's simply responding to the dunderheaded view that CFM is somehow more 'successful' than R3 on the grounds that it has 6m listeners and R3 only has 2m. Catering for people who know little or nothing about classical music (and don't want to be bothered with 'in-depth musicological and complicated biographical detail') is what CFM does. It has a bigger audience because more people know little or nothing about classical music and just want some nice music.

If you look at the R3 strategy over the past 12 years, it's blatantly obvious that the aim has been to get more people listening, and to change the output for that purpose. But ten years ago the aim was to broaden the range of music to get new audiences - Stage & Screen, Brian Kay's Light Programme, Kit & the Widow Cocktails, Late Junction, Andy Kershaw, World Routes, Radio 3 Awards for World Music, World Music day, moving the jazz from late-night to daytime, plus, still, Mixing It. How much of that policy has remained intact? Even Late Junction is Later Junction and reduced from four to three editions. The few survivors have been shoved into graveyard slots.

So now for something completely different: not a broad range of music, but a broader audience for classical music. The claim of combating elitism and snobbery in classical music is pure hypocrisy: if that had been the aim, why all this Kit & the Widow rubbish in the first place? It's more a question of, 'If at first you don't succeed, try something else.'

In 1992 Classic FM stepped in to fill a gap in the market: catering for people who neither knew nor wanted to know much about music: they just wanted some classical wallpaper. It proved very successful. Yes, R3 can still claim to be (to quote the jargon) 'high-quality and distinctive'. But it's now mostly another brand of station for people who know little about classical music and don't want anything difficult. The shameful thing is that anyone who has serious aspirations to learn more about the music is dismissed as unimportant, unrepresentative, 'a tiny, tiny minority'. There is no principle behind Radio 3 strategy other than to keep Radio 2 and Radio 4's audience (where CFM get most of their listeners) listening to BBC Radio rather turning over to a commercial station.

[Norfolk Born]

If I may say so, FF, that's an excellent summary of a regrettable state of affairs. In my case, I was more or less driven away from Radio 3 to Radio 4, which, together with its digital-only sibling, has now become my 'default' radio setting, not least because their offerings, while often simply enjoyable, are often also more intellectually stimulating and nourishing than most of Radio 3's output these days.

[Suffolkcoastal]

CFM contiinuing to provide the introductions/the drive time playlists etc and R3 taking over for those with more than a casual listening interest and who want to learn more for example. CFM could point the way to its more adventurous listeners by suggesting tuning in to a R3 concert later that day to hear something complete that they had just played an extract from. I doubt it would ever be considered, by CFM would have nothing to fear, it would always have a solid core of listeners with just a casual interest in classical music.

[antongould]

CFM contiinuing to provide the introductions/the drive time playlists etc and R3 taking over for those with more than a casual listening interest and who want to learn more for example. CFM could point the way to its more adventurous listeners by suggesting tuning in to a R3 concert later that day to hear something complete that they had just played an extract from. I doubt it would ever be considered, by CFM would have nothing to fear, it would always have a solid core of listeners with just a casual interest in classical music.

Thanks for coming back - and if both stations had the same "owner" it could work but in the hard world of commerce never. Can you imagine the Daily Mail suggesting readers go to the Guardian for a fuller story?

[Suffolkcoastal]

Commerce/competition does have a lot of negative things to answer for in the present world sadly. I never think competition is really effective, all it seems to do is drive each competitor to cut even greater corners and ultimately its the customer who loses out. As is the case with the R3 and CFM at the moment. Yes I know that close cooperation will never happen, however a mutual understanding could be reached 'behind the scenes' maybe?

[Frances_iom]

...Yes I know that close cooperation will never happen, however a mutual understanding could be reached 'behind the scenes' maybe?

and pigs will fly .. - no way CFM is not in the business of developing a better appreciation of classical music other than to increase its share of what is generally a group of listeners who are not well catered for by other commercial radio stations (remember it is not making real money by selling music to its listeners but rather by selling its listeners to the advertisers) - it is quite amusing to see that HMV's classical section is now entirely Cfm's "The Complete Works" (ie the complete rather than Breakfast salamied) or 'Essential Classics' at about the same price as Naxos (who appear to have pulled their CDs from HMV) - maybe R3 can start its own CD's or downloads - "themes from the Classics - your 100 most tweeted for tunes - possibly call the CD R3's tweets of the year or all you need know in 160 bars.

[Paul Sherratt]

>>Even Late Junction is Later Junction


Soon to become ' Not So Late Junction '
10.30 - Midnight.

[Norfolk Born]

Hurrah! This means that I should be able to stay awake for at least the first half. (Yes, I know I could record it or listen on the iPlayer, but that's a different kind of listening experience).

[Paul Sherratt]

>>but that's a different kind of listening experience.


Exactly right, Ofca.

Ms FT will be 'lead' presenter with a monthly quota, after which Ms VS and Mr Max will share
the remainder. And that Nick bloke may turn up from time to time, too.

[french frank]

Soon to become ' Not So Late Junction '
10.30 - Midnight.

I did not know that. R3 must have been losing audience in the evening . Another day, another U-turn - that makes more LJ than there has ever been before - unless it's being cut to twice a week!

So, does that mean the end of The Essay? Or Night Waves brought forward and the end of classical listening at 9.30 again?

[Nick Armstrong]

Essential Classics could be fine if Rob uses it as an vehicle for varied and exceptional performances - some offbeat or lesser known interpretations of more or less familiar works could be intriguing.

If it's true that classical listening will be back on at midnight, then I welcome that for purely selfish reasons - I usually retire between 12 and 1 and regret not just being able to switch on R3 for some late night listening to the sort of thing I like.

Didn't take long for RW's newly-interactive blog to take one below the belt: the fourth comment needed dealing with, it seems....

4. At 07:21 1st Aug 2011, Nomax wrote:
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules

I really want to know what Nomax said!

[french frank]

I did not know that. R3 must have been losing audience in the evening . Another day, another U-turn - that makes more LJ than there has ever been before - unless it's being cut to twice a week!

So, does that mean the end of The Essay? Or Night Waves brought forward and the end of classical listening at 9.30 again?

Ooh, yes, had not noticed the significance of LJ going off at midnight. Actually, that's less than before then.

My guess is that this might be connected with the fact that TTN will be going off half an hour earlier in the morning as Breakfast is brought forward half an hour.

[rank_and_file]

I am responding to mercia’s post number 10 where regarding “Essential Classics” it is stated:
“each day Essential Classics welcomes a guest to the studio to discuss their musical tastes".

We seem to have no idea what sort of guests will appear, nor for how long, and what their musical tastes will be.

However, I feel some trepidation that this is an excuse for guests involved in popular singing, crossover, jazz, theatre and shows, film music and so on.

So we may get the same as before ala Walker/Jolly, but with a chunk taken away from classical music.
I hope I am wrong, but I am not betting on it.