New season on Radio 3 to include two new classical music programmes

[salymap]

The British Council used to promote recordings of British music. Also musicians toured abroad on promotional trips. Think it's more sport and general educational subjects now but will look them up when I have time.Thanks

[french frank]

But, BUT… RW or BBC may argue that the OU actually offers a reward: a degree whereas Radio3 is after all just for people’s hobby.

Ho! ho!, yes! . I loved this quote from the OU's History:

' "[Mrs Thatcher] came and tore us to shreds...She even said how could we justify spending so much money in order to satisfy the hobbies of housewives.” Chris Christodoulou, University Secretary 1969-1980'

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i share this long term experience of the Third Programme and later R3 ...i never thought it was elitist, just pretty straight, uncompromising even, and knew what it was on about and did not get in its own way getting the stuff on .... a channel/stream/station like R3 will never get above 10% of any audience .... if it must be targeted on audience measurement, then i think listener delight and loyalty should both be measured and take precedence over reach

the attribution of 'elitism' is, if not a cheap jibe, profoundly mistaken in relation to R3..... the bbc does a huge amount of popular output, but it is a national service funded by the public and it owes that public a duty to culture as well

... if it were to be called elitist it would be the corpocat cadre in charge of the corporation and the Paxman/Humphrey sneer instead of educated news that would deserve the attribute ... the better news programmes in the USA do better at inform and educate than newsnight often manages ... meanwhile R3 adopts the fragmentation of the short attention span and the personalisation of presenting that is fit for purpose in popular broadcasting but badly ill-suited to the R3 remit ...

[Suffolkcoastal]

Your experiences were exactly the same as mine roslynmuse and we must be a similar age. R3 was invaulable in my apreciation and understanding of classical music. As for the present station I would encourage anyone generally interested in expanding their knowledge and understanding to, for the moment, stay well clear of the station. As for the OU, it doesn't offer a degree in music just a diploma, which has dissolved in a rather watered down mish-mash.

[StephenO]

In the days before "Breakfast", when there was a sensible (and listed) Radio 3 programme at 7.00 a.m., I switched on regularly, and with interest.

Ah, yes, I remember it well! Just music, with each piece given a brief but informative introduction from an announcer (as opposed to a 'presenter') who actually knew what he/she was talking about. No audience interaction, no competitions, no inane chatter and no 'arts news' from the Grauniad or the Torygraph. Don't know what the focus groups and marketing execs would have made of it but, as a young chap new to classical music, it opened musical doors for me which I'd scarcely imagined existed. For that, I shall always be grateful to Radio 3.

If I wanted background music, it would be a different matter, but such a programme would not be worthy of Radio 3.

Agreed. 'Essential Classics' belong on Classic FM, which does an excellent job of presenting them. R3, though, should exist to provide something more. Are audience figures really more important than offering listeners the variety and quality we want? Unfortunately, the answer is now almost certainly a resounding 'yes'.

[Black Swan]

Wow, I go on holiday and come back to Radio 3 being reorganized. I'm not over the moon about Essential Classics, just more of the usual that we get on breakfast. Also, my major disappointment is the change on Sunday morning. I have come to enjoy Suzy Klein on Sunday morning. I will need to find a replacement as I am not a fan of Rob Cowan. I have had enough of him from Breakfast and am not going to have to listen to him on my Sunday off with his recommendations and anecdotes.

John

.

[StephenO]

Wow, I go on holiday and come back to Radio 3 being reorganized. I'm not over the moon about Essential Classics, just more of the usual that we get on breakfast. Also, my major disappointment is the change on Sunday morning. I have come to enjoy Suzy Klein on Sunday morning. I will need to find a replacement as I am not a fan of Rob Cowan. I have had enough of him from Breakfast and am not going to have to listen to him on my Sunday off with his recommendations and anecdotes.

John

I generally miss most of Suzy Klein as I'm at church but, from what I've heard of Sunday Morning, I can't see that Rob Cowan would be any better or worse. He has an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of recorded music and I enjoy hearing his recommendations even if I don't always agree with them. The fault doesn't lie with Rob so much as with the format that's been imposed on R3's morning programmes.

[doversoul1]

Ho! ho!, yes! . I loved this quote from the OU's History:

' "[Mrs Thatcher] came and tore us to shreds...She even said how could we justify spending so much money in order to satisfy the hobbies of housewives.” Chris Christodoulou, University Secretary 1969-1980'

Ah, those were the days when a housewife could learn anything from local history to Italian Renaissance Art and even Japanese at an Adult Education Centre for £50 a year (if not less). Learning was a publicly funded legitimate hobby then. Not now. A course will not get funding unless it leads to a qualification and a qualification is not a qualification unless it leads to earning (more) money. Value for Money Rules. I have a feeling that Radio3 is not standing too far from this principle. It is very hard not to give up.

Do you think RW really believes in what he is doing? Do you think we should all post our comments on his blog?

[Panjandrum]

The fault doesn't lie with Rob so much as with the format that's been imposed on R3's morning programmes.

You're entitled to your view but it has been acknowledged by Rob Cowan on the old boards that the choice of music was approximately 50% the presenters and 50% the producers. As testimony to that I think you will find that the slavonic and hungarian dances appear more on Cowan's watch than Mohr-Pietsch.

[Black Swan]

I really won't argue the point allot of my opinion is based on I don't really want an encyclopedic presenter. I find there is a fine line between advising and evangelizing. I enjoy music with out allot of fuss. So we will see how the new season pans out.

John

[Panjandrum]

I really won't argue the point allot of my opinion is based on I don't really want an encyclopedic presenter. I find there is a fine line between advising and evangelizing. I enjoy music with out allot of fuss. So we will see how the new season pans out.

John

Basically, you have been allotted a certain amount of free time and do not want a lot of chat to be allotted to the new programme.

[antongould]

Your experiences were exactly the same as mine roslynmuse and we must be a similar age. R3 was invaulable in my apreciation and understanding of classical music. As for the present station I would encourage anyone generally interested in expanding their knowledge and understanding to, for the moment, stay well clear of the station. As for the OU, it doesn't offer a degree in music just a diploma, which has dissolved in a rather watered down mish-mash.

I enter again as a minority of one, I suppose, but am I the only parent here who finds his children somewhat different from himself, Forty five years ago I was, like most of the posters above, thirsty for knowledge, for "classical" knowledge especially - I read all of Dickens, Priestley, Orwell Lawrence etc. etc. and had musical tastes that went beyond the Mersey Sound even including a little classical. At Poly most of my student friends were the same
Move forward to my own five children all with good university degrees and not shielded in any way from "great" literature - it is still a family joke how I read Christmas Carol and Tale of Two Cities to them at bedtime!
But they have not read one piece of classical literature other than set books between them!
To get today's younger generation "into" classical music you will IMHO have to provide bridges as the thirst for things high brow is just not there.

[Roslynmuse]

I enter again as a minority of one, I suppose, but am I the only parent here who finds his children somewhat different from himself, Forty five years ago I was, like most of the posters above, thirsty for knowledge, for "classical" knowledge especially - I read all of Dickens, Priestley, Orwell Lawrence etc. etc. and had musical tastes that went beyond the Mersey Sound even including a little classical. At Poly most of my student friends were the same
Move forward to my own five children all with good university degrees and not shielded in any way from "great" literature - it is still a family joke how I read Christmas Carol and Tale of Two Cities to them at bedtime!
But they have not read one piece of classical literature other than set books between them!
To get today's younger generation "into" classical music you will IMHO have to provide bridges as the thirst for things high brow is just not there.

I don't think your experiences necessarily contradict those of other posters, myself included, but they widen the scope of the argument beyond radio, R3 in particular. Neither Rob Cowan-style presentation nor a return to the content we had in the 70s and 80s is going to grab the under 25s (say) if there isn't a spark, a hunger to acquire knowledge, there already. Where does that come from and why does it appear to be so rare nowadays? Does the ready accessibility of dozens of television channels, youtube, Spotify, even the iPlayer, a huge range of recorded music, books, and the complex world of social networking versus 'real life' simply kill off that urge for cultural exploration? What in our culture is so anti-education? (In the sense of drawing out the individual rather than filling up the masses.) I also sense something of what doversoul refers to above - an unspoken, perhaps even mentally unarticulated but nontheless omnipresent sense in many people of 'what's it worth?' (...for me to read this book, to listen to this piece of music to know anything about anything...)

I work in HE, and sadly I sense that calculation in the majority of the students I teach.

[doversoul1]

Anton
What makes you think you are a minority? I always find it more than a little suspicious when a parent tells me, usually proudly, that his/her children love the same thing as s/he does. Cats and dogs, yes, but not books and music. You may wonder why your children are not interested in music but think of the parents of Paul Lewis and Julian Bliss. They must still be asking themselves ‘where on earth does all this come from?’

Also, we should remember that classical music and literature (Literature) have always been a minority interest. I don’t think we should worry too much about whether less young people are interested in classical music now that when we were young. If anything, they have far more access to ‘things high blow’ if they have a mind to look for.

What is worrying is that when young people become interested in classical music on their own accord, if Radio3 continued to be as it is, they won't have the best resource to feed and develop their interest and knowledge. And that will be very serious.

Roslynmuse
Yes, anti-education trend is very worrying but I think those who become interested in classical music tend to have anti-mainstream mind (er… like us ) so let’s hope they will survive.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Anton, I never once found R3 highbrow, I come from a normal working class background, I don't have a degree, even though I really should, nor does anyone in my family. R3 had roughly mainly maintained its standards until the last 4-5 years and I expect probably had a similar number of young-people tuning in for the first time as it has always done. Since the current regime's decimation of the station began has the number of first-time listeners really improved that much? Has the station actually held the attention of its new listeners in the way it once did? The people whom I know that more casually listen to classical music, all listen to Classic FM, one or two have tried R3 for a bit but much prefer CFM's style. There is such a golden opportunity for R3 to work with and not against CFM, there is room for two classical stations but not for one that now openly tries to imitate the other in search of cheap ratings, by continually doing this R3 has now lost not only its integrity but also the respect of many of its staunchest listeners.