Radio 3 Programming - Problems & Solutions

[LezLee]

I should not complain, since I do not contribute to the BBC's income, but prompted by this thread I listened to part of this morning for the first time in months. The music itself was unobjectionable (I was intrigued by the Tabakova, a name new to me, and the Bringuier/Ravel had all the point and clarity I recall from a concert a year or two ago), the presentation not too intrusive (a welcome respite from the usual bickering couple on France Musique), BUT who created the programme? A computer? The courses are too short (I had been warned, here) and one really cannot listen to Copland, then Gibbons, then Rachmaninov without musical dyspepsia.

You're not speaking for everyone, no dyspepsia here!
You might enjoy Dobrinka Tabakova's Cello Concerto, I first heard it on (ahem!) Essential Classics a few weeks ago.

This is the 2nd mvt. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv0EvERYsQI

[french frank]

(I was intrigued by the Tabakova, a name new to me,

A protégée of Radio 3, being given commissions (and no doubt part of the station's determination to promote women composers - quite right, no intended diminution of her achievement).

Where I can't understand the logic: why would people prefer to hear one movement of a work because they haven't time to listen to the whole work? If they have to go out and do something else, why don't they just go out in the middle - the performers won't be annoyed? How is that worse than hearing an isolated movement? For Radio 3 to give in to this 'too busy, too busy, haven't got time' seems like letting the tail wag the dog.

[Alain Maréchal]

no dyspepsia here!

Iron constitutions in Scotland I presume. I should not have listened during lunch.*

* yes, I know, it was very wrong of me, a disservice both to the music and the food, but I'm home alone today, and I cooked it.

[Dave2002]

You might enjoy Dobrinka Tabakova's Cello Concerto, I first heard it on (ahem!) Essential Classics a few weeks ago.

This is the 2nd mvt. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv0EvERYsQI

I wonder if that's another example of a disappearing track - as mentioned in the techie section about Blu-Rays. I was fairly sure I'd downloaded all, or some of that cello concerto from emusic, but after various revamps of that service there doesn't seem to any evidence of it on emusic any more - at least for new users. However, the 2nd movement is in the My Music section, so presumably I did at least download it once. Without a history list of what I did pay for I can't tell whether I ever paid for downloads of the other movements. That's one example of why I don't like streaming or downloads - though sometimes a streaming/download service is good for getting to know unfamiliar and little known music.

The whole CD is still available from Amazon at least - https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Dobrinka-...devices&sr=8-1

[LezLee]

Where I can't understand the logic: why would people prefer to hear one movement of a work because they haven't time to listen to the whole work? If they have to go out and do something else, why don't they just go out in the middle - the performers won't be annoyed? How is that worse than hearing an isolated movement? For Radio 3 to give in to this 'too busy, too busy, haven't got time' seems like letting the tail wag the dog.

I think this all started with Classic FM's determined promotion of Górecki 3 by only playing the middle movement. Do people actually bother to listen to the rest? The Beeb latched on to this and when playing new or lesser known pieces now play the most immediately attractive movements or sections to lure people in.

[Serial_Apologist]

I think this all started with Classic FM's determined promotion of Górecki 3 by only playing the middle movement. Do people actually bother to listen to the rest? The Beeb latched on to this and when playing new or lesser known pieces now play the most immediately attractive movements or sections to lure people in.

"The rest" is the only part of Gorecki 3 that I do consciously listen to! The middle movement just floats over my head, heavenly and out of reach.

[french frank]

I think this all started with Classic FM's determined promotion of Górecki 3 by only playing the middle movement. Do people actually bother to listen to the rest? The Beeb latched on to this and when playing new or lesser known pieces now play the most immediately attractive movements or sections to lure people in.

I'll go along with that as an explanation, but I don't think it's something everyone has to suffer without protest, just because some aren't bothered. There's seldom even ONE full length work until, perhaps, the lunchtime concert - when audiences are already falling off once the radio peak listening time is over. And the constant repeat playing of Everyone's Favourites. Plus the 'stars' burbling away between the snippets. If there's an opposite to 'lighten up', that's what Radio 3 should do. At least the people who prefer easy listening would have a choice between Classic FM and Scala Radio now.

[Stanfordian]

"The rest" is the only part of Gorecki 3 that I do consciously listen to! The middle movement just floats over my head, heavenly and out of reach.

You are so right that only that single movement of the Gorecki gets played. Rather like playing only the slow movement from Mahler's 5th symphony.

[Serial_Apologist]

Rather like playing only the slow movement from Mahler's 5th symphony.

Visconti started all that!

[Stanfordian]

Visconti started all that!

Visconti, correct!

The slow movement is a masterpiece but I love to hear it in place in the symphony.

[hmvman]

Visconti, correct!

The slow movement is a masterpiece but I love to hear it in place in the symphony.

Hear, hear. To me it's a different piece of music when heard in context than when isolated.

[jayne lee wilson]

Visconti started all that!

Death in Venice no doubt gave it universal popularity, but playing it alone does predate the film. As Wiki tells us
"Leonard Bernstein conducted it during the funeral Mass for Robert F. Kennedy at St. Patrick's Cathedral, Manhattan, on 8 June 1968"...

It wouldn't surprise me to hear of other earlier examples...

[LMcD]

Death in Venice no doubt gave it universal popularity, but playing it alone does predate the film. As Wiki tells us
"Leonard Bernstein conducted it during the funeral Mass for Robert F. Kennedy at St. Patrick's Cathedral, Manhattan, on 8 June 1968"...

It wouldn't surprise me to hear of other earlier examples...

According to Wikipedia:
The British premiere of (Mahler's) Symphony No. 5 came 36 years after that of the Adagietto, conducted by Henry Wood in 1909

[french frank]

Death in Venice no doubt gave it universal popularity, but playing it alone does predate the film. As Wiki tells us

"Leonard Bernstein conducted it during the funeral Mass for Robert F. Kennedy at St. Patrick's Cathedral Manhattan, on 8 June 1968..."

It wouldn't surprise me to hear of other earlier examples...

I think there is a difference between an 'occasional' use of any single movement (in a film, at a special event) where it's not realistic to play the entire work, and the policy that, even when there is time to play the whole work, only a movement is played because 'people are too busy to listen to the whole thing'/ 'people don't sit for that long for anything these days'/'it's too much to ask of people more used to Classic FM'.

It's a bad move to get people used to hearing only the 'well-known' part, the shortest part, the most attractive part. 'Education' entails people understanding what the work is - not 'Turandot is my favourite opera' when they mean 'I love Nessun dorma'. Radio 3, at least, should generally have at least half an eye on extending people's knowledge as well as giving them a 'feel good' factor. Who has a better opportunity than Radio 3 to inform and educate about classical music, as well as entertain??

[cloughie]

Death in Venice no doubt gave it universal popularity, but playing it alone does predate the film. As Wiki tells us
"Leonard Bernstein conducted it during the funeral Mass for Robert F. Kennedy at St. Patrick's Cathedral, Manhattan, on 8 June 1968"...

It wouldn't surprise me to hear of other earlier examples...

I think both Bruno Walter and Paul Kletzki have recorded it separately and have latterly had them as a coupling to Mahler 4.