Ian Skelly says............

[french frank]

I
Except perhaps that it's not the Essential Classics thread....?

True, but pressing on …

I assume Radio 3 squared it with Sony to pinch the name of their Early Years series? Did money have to change hands?

[Serial_Apologist]

Perhaps they don't have any thoughts on Mahler's music? I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but rather that a particular 'chunk' appeals and will be listened to, and the rest of the work doesn't appeal. In that instance I rather doubt that any thoughts on Mahler's music in general are likely to be forthcoming. Is it so different from me only liking certain(aka the well-known) bits of Wagner's output, and being happy to leave the other 99% to the afficionados?
I do accept that is not a justification for the current R3 morning output being imposed on those capable of managing rather more substantial fare, but in the grand scheme of things I would rather that someone only listened to one bit of, eg Mahler, than none. It does at least leave the door open a chink...

But the point surely is that you got the chance to hear the whole before deciding, yourself, which parts you wanted to concentrate your listening upon. Anyone who has not been introduced to the larger option only has the presenter/scheduler's choice to base a judgement on, which is only going to be partial vis-à-vis the original and its creator's intention.

[doversoul1]

But the point surely is that you got the chance to hear the whole before deciding, yourself, which parts you wanted to concentrate your listening upon. Anyone who has not been introduced to the larger option only has the presenter/scheduler's choice to base a judgement on, which is only going to be partial vis-à-vis the original and its creator's intention.

I don’t think majority or a lot of people who listen to classical music listen to music in the way you and many members on this forum assume everyone does. As oddoneout says, a lot of people (I’d say most people) who enjoy listening to classical music don’t have any thoughts on Mahler's music, not because they are lazy or unintelligent, but it’s just that that is how a lot of people who have no musical training listen to music and enjoy it.

Classical FM does a very good job offering pleasure to a lot of people but Radio 3 should offer something that is of interest to the listeners who want to know how to think about Mahler's music. And beyond.

[Serial_Apologist]

I don’t think majority or a lot of people who listen to classical music listen to music in the way you and many members on this forum assume everyone does. As oddoneout says, a lot of people (I’d say most people) who enjoy listening to classical music don’t have any thoughts on Mahler's music, not because they are lazy or unintelligent, but it’s just that that is how a lot of people who have no musical training listen to music and enjoy it.

Classical FM does a very good job offering pleasure to a lot of people but Radio 3 should offer something that is of interest to the listeners who want to know how to think about Mahler's music. And beyond.

Where else in British radio broadcasting are you likely to be introduced to Mahler, other than in bits, apart from on Radio 3 - as she was?

[doversoul1]

Where else in British radio broadcasting are you likely to be introduced to Mahler, other than in bits, apart from on Radio 3 - as she was?

I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand the point of your question. Could you expand or rephrase it?

My point is that even on Radio3 a single movement could be useful if it were used with careful thoughts.

[Serial_Apologist]

I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand the point of your question. Could you expand or rephrase it?

My point is that even on Radio3 a single movement could be useful if it were used with careful thoughts.

My apologies, dovers! My point is that Radio 3's morning schedules used to be a place to go to hear works such as Mahler symphonies in their entirety, as others have pointed out, and I was asking (rhetorically!) where the novices which Radio 3 purports to be introducing to serious music by way of Essential Classics can now go to obtain their complete introductions.

[Alison]

My apologies, dovers! My point is that Radio 3's morning schedules used to be a place to go to hear works such as Mahler symphonies in their entirety, as others have pointed out, and I was asking (rhetorically!) where the novices which Radio 3 purports to be introducing to serious music by way of Essential Classics can now go to obtain their complete introductions.

I suppose there a lot of complete performances of Mahler in the afternoons, evening and through the night.

[french frank]

I think that Radio 1, Radio 2 and 6 Music have an idea of their distinct audiences: listeners who won't like everything on the station, but will happily listen to a lot of it, for several hours at a time. The stations have a substantial 'middle of the road' audience.

Radio 3's 'middle of the road' audience seems to be the one that will be happy with Breakfast, Essential Classics, Saturday Classics, Sunday Morning, Private Passions … It's some distance away from the audience that most of the forumistas seem to represent.

And let's be clear: this last year, 2017, has been a pretty mouldy one for Radio 3 from the point of 'performance', struggling to get close to its own benchmark 2m in three out of four quarters. Can they claim to be 'getting it right'?

It seems to me that Radio 3 has given up the struggle to produce intelligent, demanding classical output, taking the view that if they don't focus on their 'middle of the road' audience they'll perform even worse than they're doing now. It's like grade inflation: Radio 3 is the new First Class.

[doversoul1]

My apologies, dovers! My point is that Radio 3's morning schedules used to be a place to go to hear works such as Mahler symphonies in their entirety, as others have pointed out, and I was asking (rhetorically!) where the novices which Radio 3 purports to be introducing to serious music by way of Essential Classics can now go to obtain their complete introductions.

Thank you!

I think Ian Skelly does his best to keep it going but the programme, or for that matter the entire schedule could be so much better. There seems to be no focus.

I can’t remember when or what the programme was but I taped a programme on which The Art of Fugue was explained at each fugue. I didn’t understand it all but I was fascinated and made sure to listen to the work whenever it came on the radio. I bought a (the?) CD in the end. Radio 3 has more than enough people who can do a programme like this any day. What a waste.

[Old Grumpy]

I think that Radio 1, Radio 2 and 6 Music have an idea of their distinct audiences: listeners who won't like everything on the station, but will happily listen to a lot of it, for several hours at a time. The stations have a substantial 'middle of the road' audience.

Radio 3's 'middle of the road' audience seems to be the one that will be happy with Breakfast, Essential Classics, Saturday Classics, Sunday Morning, Private Passions … It's some distance away from the audience that most of the forumistas seem to represent.

And let's be clear: this last year, 2017, has been a pretty mouldy one for Radio 3 from the point of 'performance', struggling to get close to its own benchmark 2m in three out of four quarters. Can they claim to be 'getting it right'?

It seems to me that Radio 3 has given up the struggle to produce intelligent, demanding classical output, taking the view that if they don't focus on their 'middle of the road' audience they'll perform even worse than they're doing now. It's like grade inflation: Radio 3 is the new First Class.

Maybe that's the mooted new Breakfast jingle: Third Programme - First Class!

OG

[oddoneout]

But the point surely is that you got the chance to hear the whole before deciding, yourself, which parts you wanted to concentrate your listening upon. Anyone who has not been introduced to the larger option only has the presenter/scheduler's choice to base a judgement on, which is only going to be partial vis-à-vis the original and its creator's intention.

Not when I comes to Wagner, no!
I don't think it has to be either/or. Hearing part of a piece can lead to finding out about the rest, or more of that composer's output. But there is also the possibility that trying to listen to the whole thing, especially the larger works and for those not accustomed to such, will lead to giving up before getting to something that is of interest.As a student a fellow housemate heard one of the movements of Beethoven 7 as the soundtrack to the film A Touch of Class. She liked it so much she bought a cassette and played it over and over again. When I suggested she might like to at least try the rest of the symphony she said she'd listened to a bit but it wasn't the same and she didn't like it. We might think that a pity, but perhaps it's not as much of a pity as never having heard any Beethoven?
As I have said before I think there is a place for the 'bits' approach provided it is done intelligently(ie explanation, pointers to follow-ons etc) and in moderation. The blanket '100 best bits' approach does not work for anyone and is not what R3 should be doing.

[oddoneout]

I don’t think majority or a lot of people who listen to classical music listen to music in the way you and many members on this forum assume everyone does. As oddoneout says, a lot of people (I’d say most people) who enjoy listening to classical music don’t have any thoughts on Mahler's music, not because they are lazy or unintelligent, but it’s just that that is how a lot of people who have no musical training listen to music and enjoy it.

Classical FM does a very good job offering pleasure to a lot of people but Radio 3 should offer something that is of interest to the listeners who want to know how to think about Mahler's music. And beyond.

I agree with you and think it is one of the joys of music, in all its varied forms, that one can enjoy it without knowing anything about it. Knowing about the composer or the music may add to enjoyment but lack of that knowledge doesn't take away or prevent enjoyment. I fall into the 'not musically trained' (other than to produce notes on a couple of instruments) and my response to a piece, whether familiar or not, does not depend on being able to analyse it or talk knowledgeably about it. What is important is what the music says to me personally - which may not have much to do with what the composer intended or the circumstances and technicalities of its composition.

[antongould]

I was thinking much the same last week, finding myself warming to him and thinking his comments interesting and informative. And then, when to my surprise he played my suggested 'slow moment' (Matthias Goerne's Schubert Litanei) and was most gracious to me personally on air, I fairly glowed with pleasure.

Just caught up with your slow moment Rex .... it was indeed wonderful and IMVVHO deserved all the praise heaped on it by Skellers and others ......

[Anastasius]

(In)Essential Classics

B asically
A wful
N oisome
A nd
L acklustre ( or maybe just plain L ousy)

[Rex Bartlett]

Just caught up with your slow moment Rex .... it was indeed wonderful and IMVVHO deserved all the praise heaped on it by Skellers and others ......

Thank you Anton! That's very good to hear. Yes, it is something special isn't it. It came as quite a surprise to find myself returning to it regularly, and then, after musing on why I 'liked it' as much as I obviously did (apart from it being incredibly beautiful) coming to realise that I was going there as a place of solace. Or, more precisely, that's where I'd just been taken for a short while.

That's why I will often play it again. The surprise is to discover, after a lifetime of Radio 3, how much effect 8 minutes of perfection can have on my sensibilities. The joys of old age perhaps.

I Skelly read my email out almost verbatim, but what I'd also said was that as an older man living alone, I often rue the fact that I can never share those "Hey, listen to this" moments with anyone. And it occured to me that this was the most perfect piece, in more ways than one, to share with everyone listening to Essential Classics.

And you could say, on topic, that for all the bemoaning here (myself included) the loss of the old Essential Classics and all thats wrong with its replacement, at least I did something practical about it.