Ian Skelly says............

[jean]

...Back at the turn of the last century individual movements were constantly being programmed, either as encores or as parts of the main menu...

It is indeed very instructive to look at concert programmes for this period, and earlier.

This was a time when, even if a whole symphony was served up, applause between movements was the norm. The effect of this now is to make me hear movements as separate works, which I'd rather not do, thanks, having got used to

...the 'completeness' option...

It does surprise me that posters here argue for intermovement applause, while deploring the single movement played in isolation. But maybe they're not the same posters.

.

[oddoneout]

The BBC has more than doubled the number of music radio broadcasting hours since the days of Pied Piper: should Radio 3 provide a special programme for 257 under 10s, 147 adults and Mrs Trellis's cat?

No, but if it could produce one quality programme like Pied Piper that engaged all those small number groups at once, then there is some chance that a stray 'new' listener might be caught, but without losing existing listeners who may well also enjoy such a thing.
TV series such as those of David Attenborough et al show that where something is well thought out and well produced it will engage a wide range of viewers, without the need for heavy handed 'targeting'. R3 doesn't have the audience 'reach' obviously, but is it really the case that something of similar quality and broad interest couldn't be produced for listeners? I am more inclined to think it's the can't be bothered/not interested/ too much effort/ too expensive(especially the latter?) mindset which prevents this, since programmes such as today's EMS demonstrate that there are people out there who can present effectively, knowledgeably and accessibly.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But WHY do they think differently and what does that different thinking tell anyone about their thoughts on Mahler's music?

Questions way beyond my ability - I find it kinder on my blood pressure just to accept that there are such differences.

[oddoneout]

I joke not. It's a fact that some classical works may have one very nice, appealing movement but the rest are disappointing. We wouldn't want to confuse the "noobs" now, would we, into parting with their cash on a CD they've only heard part of only to find they can't stand the piece in question in its entirety? The BBC could be sued for misrepresentation!

Wouldn't they be more likely just to download the single bit they're interested in? Saves wasting money and being disappointed with the full fat version; the downside is possibly missing something which they would have liked. Then again I suppose they might also, as a result of rootling around for the bit they want, come in contact with more music, and find something of interest...

[ahinton]

Questions way beyond my ability - I find it kinder on my blood pressure just to accept that there are such differences.

Sure - mine, too - but they still need to be asked rather than merely glossed over, methinks...

[oddoneout]

But WHY do they think differently and what does that different thinking tell anyone about their thoughts on Mahler's music?

Perhaps they don't have any thoughts on Mahler's music? I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but rather that a particular 'chunk' appeals and will be listened to, and the rest of the work doesn't appeal. In that instance I rather doubt that any thoughts on Mahler's music in general are likely to be forthcoming. Is it so different from me only liking certain(aka the well-known) bits of Wagner's output, and being happy to leave the other 99% to the afficionados?
I do accept that is not a justification for the current R3 morning output being imposed on those capable of managing rather more substantial fare, but in the grand scheme of things I would rather that someone only listened to one bit of, eg Mahler, than none. It does at least leave the door open a chink...

[french frank]

No, but if it could produce one quality programme like Pied Piper that engaged all those small number groups at once, then there is some chance that a stray 'new' listener might be caught, but without losing existing listeners who may well also enjoy such a thing.

Hmm, yes, well, my argument has been that with the huge expansion of BBC broadcasting, radio and television, it's the BBC's responsibility to broadcast such programmes - preferably where they already have the target audience listening or watching (that's how scheduling usually works). Unfortunately, the cut-throat competition means that the BBC is so terrified of losing audience by having eg 'classical music' on a service which is in any way 'popular' (like BBC Two) that they shove it all on to Radio 3 - and increase the perception of classical music and Radio 3 as being for the 'elite minority' that can easily be ignored.

Yes, it would enhance Radio 3's own reputation to have such a children's programme, but my interest would be in getting more people listening to the content, not enhancing Radio 3's reputation.

[oddoneout]

Yes, it would enhance Radio 3's own reputation to have such a children's programme, but my interest would be in getting more people listening to the content, not enhancing Radio 3's reputation.

I quite deliberately didn't refer to PP as a children's programme for 2 reasons. Firstly because the original was I think listened to(and learned from) by as many 'grown-ups' as children, and also because I think that making a children's programme in the current dumbed-down climate is doomed from the outset. However I do think that there is a case for a programme that can potentially reach a wider audience without alienating the existing one.

[french frank]

I quite deliberately didn't refer to PP as a children's programme for 2 reasons. Firstly because the original was I think listened to(and learned from) by as many 'grown-ups' as children, and also because I think that making a children's programme in the current dumbed-down climate is doomed from the outset. However I do think that there is a case for a programme that can potentially reach a wider audience without alienating the existing one.

Well, agreed. I have a hunch that is what The Listening Service is intended for …

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Neither 'Pied Piper' nor 'The Young Idea' talked down to children in the way some of the current programmes do (to adults).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well, agreed. I have a hunch that is what The Listening Service is intended for …

Oh well that's like being educated with a sledgehammer.

[Alison]

Come back Tommy Pearson!

I might be able to accept the Essential Classics type programme were its duration only an hour or 90 mins max.

In fairness Rob's new show is only two hours long.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

'Essential Classics' - erm....note the title? - and its juddering and meandering and what lies behind its policy rationale raises IMO the very heart of issues in any discussion as to what the BBC's role in the current education crisis in music education might / should be.

The title reminds me of those Classic FM CDs, advertised as "The only opera CD you'll ever need".

Next will be a Breakfast competition to compose a CFM-style jingle.

[Rob Cowan]

The title reminds me of those Classic FM CDs, advertised as "The only opera CD you'll ever need".

Next will be a Breakfast competition to compose a CFM-style jingle.

Reminds me of the time when I presented an award to the New York Philharmonic (for the Classical Collector magazine) for a fabulous CD set they'd put out and regretted that I had to withdraw the honour because at the very last minute EMI (as was then) had topped the charts with 'The Greatest Hans Knappertsbusch Album Ever.' Certainly got a laugh!

[oddoneout]

I

am very surprised that such a discussion can be called 'off topic'. 'Essential Classics' - erm....note the title? - and its juddering and meandering and what lies behind its policy rationale raises IMO the very heart of issues in any discussion as to what the BBC's role in the current crisis in on radio / in schools by extension, and the profile of classical music in our culture might / should be.

Except perhaps that it's not the Essential Classics thread....?