Bach Immersion

[LMcD]

And what do we get? Oklahoma. I don't have problem with it being broadcast on R3, and we had a lot of Bach yesterday, but Christmas Day evening concert....FCOL was that really the best they could do?

It could be said that 'Oklahoma' accurately reflects the state that Radio 3 has gotten into (the Americanism is intentional)

[Bryn]

It could be said that 'Oklahoma' accurately reflects the state that Radio 3 has gotten into (the Americanism is intentional)

By Americanism, I take it you intend redundant British English (some would say correct British English).

[LMcD]

By Americanism, I take it you intend redundant British English (some would say correct British English).

Every day I learn something, Mr. Fawlty!

[french frank]

By Americanism, I take it you intend redundant British English (some would say correct British English).

Others would say obsolete British English.

[Bryn]

Others would say obsolete British English.

An interesting difference. However, since the sense implied is still of use, "obsolete" seems inapposite. "Redundant" is, I feel, more appropriate.

https://socratic.org/questions/what-is-the-difference-between-the-terms-obsolete-and-redundant

[french frank]

An interesting difference. However, since the sense implied is still of use, "obsolete" seems inapposite. "Redundant" is, I feel, more appropriate.

https://socratic.org/questions/what-...-and-redundant

You may use that 'authority' (which even with the examples given seems, I feel, quite off the point).

OED obsolete : No longer used or practised; outmoded, out of date ; Latin obsolētus grown old, worn out, dilapidated, fallen into disregard

I can see nothing in the meaning provided for 'redundant' (nor in the OED's definitions) which would fit this case of language usage. The 'interesting' point is that when English was carried over to America by the early settlers 'gotten' was standard English. Whereas it is still current in transatlantic English, it lingers on merely in remote pockets of habitation in England, here and there with individual users .

If one were to say 'obsolete and redundant', 'redundant' would be redundant because it adds nothing meaningful to the world 'obsolete'; if one were to say 'redundant and obsolete', 'obsolete' would not be redundant because it's necessary in order to explain what the heck you might mean by 'redundant'.

[vinteuil]

.

... but it could be 'redundant' in the Miltonic* sense of 'abounding to excess, copious overflowing' - the additional letters at the the end of 'got ten' are redundant.

*
"... to visitants a gaze,
Or pitied object, these redundant locks
Robustious to no purpose clustring down,
Vain monument of strength... "

Samson Agonistes

" ... his head
Crested aloft, and carbuncle his eyes;
With burnished neck of verdant gold, erect
Amidst his circling spires, that on the grass
Floated redundant: pleasing was his shape
And lovely; never since of serpent-kind
Lovelier. ... "

Paradise Lost




.

[jean]

Redundancy as it's undertood in linguistics implies reinforcement rather than puyrposelessness.

Anyway, what about forgotten/forgot?

[vinteuil]

Anyway, what about forgotten/forgot?

... as in that moment fraught with disaster in Act V scene iii of King Lear -

Albany - Great thing of us forgot! ...



.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... as in that moment fraught with disaster in Act V scene iii of King Lear -

Albany - Great thing of us forgot! ...

And Hamlet's hobby horse.

[vinteuil]

And Hamlet's hobby horse.

... where we have both forms in the same paragraph -

"So long? Nay then, let the devil wear black, for I’ll have a suit of sables. O heavens! Die two months ago and not forgotten yet? Then there’s hope a great man’s memory may outlive his life half a year. But, by 'r Lady, he must build churches then, or else shall he suffer not thinking on, with the hobby-horse, whose epitaph is “For, oh, for, oh, the hobby-horse is forgot.” "






.

[jean]

And more augustly even, from Aubrey's Brief Lives:

This Earle of Oxford, making of his low obeisance to Queen Elizabeth, happened to let a Fart, at which he was so abashed and ashamed that he went to Travell, 7 yeares. On his returne the Queen welcomed him home, and sayd, My Lord, I had forgott the Fart.

[jean]

'...the hobby-horse, whose epitaph is “For, oh, for, oh, the hobby-horse is forgot.” '...