Skelly replaces Cowan

[french frank]

Yes but anton was asking about a cross section of the overall 67% and the cross section within the forum inputs to the overall cross section.

!!? I still don't see that the evidence points to forumistas as being a representative cross section of the 55+ or there would be more disagreement here about Radio 3's 'most popular' (i.e. biggest audience) programme. Do most of Essential Classics' listeners write in telling them how awful the programme is? If so, why don't they change it?

PS I thought that was what ag was saying. I don't understand your post!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Do most of Essential Classics' listeners write in telling them how awful the programme is? If so, why don't they change it?

I suggest that most would simply reach for the off-switch.

Anyway, even EC has its good points, alongside the rubbish.

[jonfan]

That's interesting because many moons ago I was told they had fewer and used compression to signal boost . You are right very difficult to compress without introducing distortion . I agree about Concert sound - really excellent

Here is a limk to the Radio Listeners' Guide, which I commend to the forum. It lists all the transmitters, and their strengths, for all radio stations in the UK. Most CFM masts are shared with the BBC with similar strengths. Compression doesn't signal boost, it just degrades the sound on purpose.

http://www.radiolistenersguide.co.uk/

[Andrew Slater]

Here is a limk to the Radio Listeners' Guide, which I commend to the forum. It lists all the transmitters, and their strengths, for all radio stations in the UK. Most CFM masts are shared with the BBC with similar strengths. Compression doesn't signal boost, it just degrades the sound on purpose.


http://www.radiolistenersguide.co.uk/

I don't think that CFM's coverage is quite as wide as the BBC's, though - e.g. I know they haven't a transmitter on the Llangollen mast (marked 'Wrexham' on the map in the guide), which results in poor reception of CFM cf R3 in parts of eastern Cheshire (e.g. Macclesfield) shaded by hills from the Holme Moss transmitter. There are also blank spaces on the CFM map in parts of mid and south Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Essex and the Channel Islands, which aren't blank on the R3 map.

Diving into the detail, there are 42 VHF/FM transmitters listed for CFM against 206 for R3. Most of the R3 excess is to cover localised areas of poor reception, which does suggest that CFM coverage will be poorer in a lot of localities.

[antongould]

!!? I still don't see that the evidence points to forumistas as being a representative cross section of the 55+ or there would be more disagreement here about Radio 3's 'most popular' (i.e. biggest audience) programme. Do most of Essential Classics' listeners write in telling them how awful the programme is? If so, why don't they change it?

PS I thought that was what ag was saying. I don't understand your post!

It was what I was saying ...

[Old Grumpy]

I don't think that CFM's coverage is quite as wide as the BBC's, though - e.g. I know they haven't a transmitter on the Llangollen mast (marked 'Wrexham' on the map in the guide), which results in poor reception of CFM cf R3 in parts of eastern Cheshire (e.g. Macclesfield) shaded by hills from the Holme Moss transmitter. There are also blank spaces on the CFM map in parts of mid and south Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Essex and the Channel Islands, which aren't blank on the R3 map.

Diving into the detail, there are 42 VHF/FM transmitters listed for CFM against 206 for R3. Most of the R3 excess is to cover localised areas of poor reception, which does suggest that CFM coverage will be poorer in a lot of localities.

Yep, I can attest to that! CFM very poor reception at Grumpy Grange, but R3 fine as comes from local relay transmitter. No DAB signal ( comes from same transmitter as CFM).

[jonfan]

Yep, I can attest to that! CFM very poor reception at Grumpy Grange, but R3 fine as comes from local relay transmitter. No DAB signal ( comes from same transmitter as CFM).

If DAB and FM are poor then maybe Freeview should fit the bill? My point being compression is a deliberate policy not dependent on signal strength.

[Frances_iom]

... Do most of Essential Classics' listeners write in telling them how awful the programme is? If so, why don't they change it?

I just don't know where to start with this - do you really think that those who have climbed the greasy pole to positions of power in the Beeb care one hoot what their listeners actually think - like all hierarchical organisations there is a closing of ranks such that the thoughts of outsiders are totally ignored when they clash with the desires of the managers - we saw this many years ago with the closure of BBC forums when the listeners dared to get uppity with their criticism rather than bowing down and accepting the greasy pole climbers were all knowing and had the listeners interests at heart - it again was apparent in several R4 feedback programs that dared to raise such topics eg the vast number of intrusive trailers (to chose just one topic)

[cloughie]

!!? I still don't see that the evidence points to forumistas as being a representative cross section of the 55+ or there would be more disagreement here about Radio 3's 'most popular' (i.e. biggest audience) programme. Do most of Essential Classics' listeners write in telling them how awful the programme is? If so, why don't they change it?

PS I thought that was what ag was saying. I don't understand your post!

The make up of the 67% of over 55s is a guess. There is a small no who will phone in but of the rest many will be traditional R3 listeneners, some who want a change from what the BBC are failing them on R2, but the overall spectrum of listeners is not a lot different from the spectrum of contributors to this board.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I don't think that CFM's coverage is quite as wide as the BBC's, though - e.g. I know they haven't a transmitter on the Llangollen mast (marked 'Wrexham' on the map in the guide), which results in poor reception of CFM cf R3 in parts of eastern Cheshire (e.g. Macclesfield) shaded by hills from the Holme Moss transmitter. There are also blank spaces on the CFM map in parts of mid and south Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Essex and the Channel Islands, which aren't blank on the R3 map.

Diving into the detail, there are 42 VHF/FM transmitters listed for CFM against 206 for R3. Most of the R3 excess is to cover localised areas of poor reception, which does suggest that CFM coverage will be poorer in a lot of localities.

Yes - that pretty much tallies with what I heard ten years ago. I am in a relatively remote region and the compression here is pretty marked .

[LMcD]

If DAB and FM are poor then maybe Freeview should fit the bill? My point being compression is a deliberate policy not dependent on signal strength.

Unfortunately, Freeview is not always reliable in some areas, one of which is the Suffolk coast. Freesat, on the other hand, (same channel number - 703) is not affected by local atmospheric conditions.

[BBMmk2]

I hope that Rob has a mini series or a theme in his programme, like conductors, Ormandy, Reiner etc...

[french frank]

The make up of the 67% of over 55s is a guess. There is a small no who will phone in but of the rest many will be traditional R3 listeneners, some who want a change from what the BBC are failing them on R2, but the overall spectrum of listeners is not a lot different from the spectrum of contributors to this board.

This assumes that demographics are the only legitimate way of measuring how 'representative' an audience is. Classic FM's audience is, I would assume, slightly younger but not greatly so. People of identical democraphic (age, sex, social grade) may have very different tastes and requirements. Reading an article in the Guardian which profiles the Classic FM audience, the comment was made that Classic FM listeners 'didn't want to be educated', they wanted to be entertained. I would *hope* that was not true of Radio 3 listeners but the more the programmes become lighter, more audience oriented, simpler, the less likely they are to value education.

Given that there has been little significant shift in the size of R3's audience, but if anything the trajectory is downwards, and given that I - as an extremist who wants to be educated most of the time - don't listen at all (and I'm not entirely alone in this!) I would expect my place to be taken by people who have surged over for e.g. Essential Classics and that the "Third Programme" constituency will have declined. If the forum were 'representative' in this way there would surely be more support (than there is) for listeners contributions, tweets, guests, short pieces, (image conscious presenters, dare one say?)

What does seem to be 'average' is the distribution among the various genres: classical music by far the most important, jazz and world considerably less so, and drama &c. near extinction. But the controversial content is the classical music and the way the station chooses to present it. In that sense, reading comments from hither and yon suggests that the general classical listeners are somewhat less critical than the forumistas who voice their opinions most often. I wouldn't attempt to quantify the pros and cons with any precision. Forumistas are 'representative' of forumistas.

[Stanfordian]

Yep, I can attest to that! CFM very poor reception at Grumpy Grange, but R3 fine as comes from local relay transmitter. No DAB signal ( comes from same transmitter as CFM).

It's clearly a regional matter. I live in West Lancashire and Classic FM is crystal clear with R3 reception patchy in quality.

[Old Grumpy]

It's clearly a regional matter. I live in West Lancashire and Classic FM is crystal clear with R3 reception patchy in quality.

Entirely dependent on local topography and where the transmitters are. I thoroughly recommend Radio Listeners' Guide. The transmitter and frequency information therein explains a lot regarding both domestic and mobile (in the car) reception in my locale.

OG