River of Music: 12 hrs Non-stop Music: Sunday 30 October

[Beef Oven!]

Taking that point, and speaking from a neutral view:

I'm not so sure that it's as simple as positivity = good, negativity = bad. I see the importance of the forum as being the exchange of (different) views. Ideally reasons should go somewhat beyond personal preference, but personal preference should not be discounted.

Being uncritical is not 'better' than being overly critical. There seemed to be a fair number of people here who thought that this was a good idea, imperfectly realised - a balanced view.

Fair points, but it still doesn’t grasp what I’m getting at. I think I’ll leave it there ....

But.....


Here’s the rub ......

What gets us ridiculed is the insults and aggressiveness which some people bring to what should be intellectual debate. Isn't it?

IMV, MrGongGong was politely trying to get an intellectual debate going on this interesting subject, but people were only interested in swapping one-dimensional value judgements of the most philistine nature, AND he got pilloried and accused of aggression and rudeness!! You couldn’t make it up!!

And what you take to be insult and aggression is nothing of the sort in many other contexts that we find ourselves in, especially on the internet!!

(and you might want to double-check what people say about us on social media).

[MrGongGong]

One last thought is that
Some literary types are so hung up on effing words that they are unable to listen without the support of the beloved language

The state of not knowing can be wonderful (which is what some of those papers about EA music discuss but I don't expect anyone to bother)

bye

(extra coda)

[ahinton]

I am not in Dorset - what are you Parretting on about? D'ye Kenn no better than that? You've some Axe to grind, Isle be thinking, or be on some strange Brue. That altogether lowers the Tone of the discussion. So put that in your pipe and Chew it!

Very good, FF, but what I meant was that your Yeo reference suggested Dorset, not that you are/were personally there. Even I know that Brizzle cassn't be in Dorset, although all the above Zummerzet referenzes might be taken to imply that you see it as being part of that county rather than as a city and country in its own right.

Isle be thinking, or be on some strange Brue

Yes, Isle Brewers is in Somerset as well.

So put that in your pipe and Chew it!

Magna-ficent! - but

That altogether lowers the Tone of the discussion

Must you continue Taunton me like that?

OK, I'll levels with you, Avill (or Sowy says); Mark Yeo, I might not go on doing so, which could put us both on the Horner va dilemma. But I daresay that, as head of this forum, you'll probably Trym my posts on this subject Frome what they are to something much smaller - and who could blame you for that? Not that I'd expect disproportionate attention in this; you deserve an Evenlode, after all.

[french frank]

IMV, MrGongGong was politely trying to get an intellectual debate going on this interesting subject, but people were only interested in swapping one-dimensional value judgements of the most philistine nature, AND he got pilloried and accused of aggression and rudeness!! You couldn’t make it up!!

I was talking in general terms there, and pointed no finger at anyone.

However, without counting I can't be sure, but my impression was that Mr GongGong was the most prolific contributor to this thread and appeared to be giving his excellent advice to other listeners on what profit they could have gained from a programme which he gave no sign of having had sufficient interest in to listen to himself. At least, he made no comment, negative or positive, about what he had heard. And as I pointed out, his message was very simple and didn't merit the number of times he repeated it, as if people didn't understand it. If he benefits from listening to his electro-acoustic music in that way, that's a very good thing.

(and you might want to double-check what people say about us on social media).

I think I'll be satisfied with Mr Lebrecht's comment to the effect that 'a less friendly bunch it would be hard to find this side of the Islamic State'. He was talking about aggressiveness rather than negativity, I think.

A further point: people who are happy and satisfied find it much easier to luxuriate quietly in their warm bath of satisfaction: those who are dissatisfied tend to be the ones who protest and complain. It's just how life is.

[french frank]

Yes, Isle Brewers is in Somerset as well.

Where else is it?

Where I lived all the rivers were called Yeo - Land Yeo, Middle Yeo, Blind Yeo and further south there were more of them - Cheddar Yeo - and the Yeo near Yeovil which isn't named after it.

[MrGongGong]

I was talking in general terms there, and pointed no finger at anyone.

However, without counting I can't be sure, but my impression was that Mr GongGong was the most prolific contributor to this thread and appeared to be giving his excellent advice to other listeners on what profit they could have gained from a programme which he gave no sign of having had sufficient interest in to listen to himself. At least, he made no comment, negative or positive, about what he had heard. .

You don't read your own forum chum

#112

It's definitely worth a go sometimes (SOMETIMES) ... I've just been on a very long journey and randomly turned on the radio to hear a massive orchestral piece with shades of Gamelan BUT not Britten, Mc Phee or anything I knew already. So having completely forgotten about this river thing listened to the end to find out what it was half thinking I might investigate but then it was something completely different. Which got me musing on the desire to own, classify and possess. So then I thought that it was perfectly fine on this occasion not to know for once.

But never mind, i'm sure your narrative is preferable

I WASN'T GIVING ADVICE I said repeatedly that I was merely musing on the internet about ideas of music without attribution and what that might mean etc etc etc

But (again) i'm sure the foil hatters version is much better

[doversoul1]

One last thought is that
Some literary types are so hung up on effing words that they are unable to listen without the support of the beloved language

The state of not knowing can be wonderful (which is what some of those papers about EA music discuss but I don't expect anyone to bother)

bye

(extra coda)

Some EA music types are so hung up on effing e-acoustics that they are unable to listen without the support of their beloved theories.

The state of not knowing can be wonderful (which is why some of those papers are best left unread)

I agree. Some of us are as bad as you are

[Beef Oven!]

I was talking in general terms there, and pointed no finger at anyone.

It was blatantly obvious that you were referring to MrGG, but that wasn’t my point. My point was that it was from his direction that an "intellectual debate" as you put it was coming from.

However, without counting I can't be sure, but my impression was that Mr GongGong was the most prolific contributor to this thread and appeared to be giving his excellent advice to other listeners on what profit they could have gained from a programme which he gave no sign of having had sufficient interest in to listen to himself. At least, he made no comment, negative or positive, about what he had heard. And as I pointed out, his message was very simple and didn't merit the number of times he repeated it, as if people didn't understand it. If he benefits from listening to his electro-acoustic music in that way, that's a very good thing.

It was clear that he was referring to people’s responses to the programme, rather than the programme. As such, it is not necessary to have heard the programme in the first place.

I think I'll be satisfied with Mr Lebrecht's comment to the effect that 'a less friendly bunch it would be hard to find this side of the Islamic State'. He was talking about aggressiveness rather than negativity, I think.

Indeed you will. It fits the way you want to see it, and as you’ve already told us, people don’t change their minds. But again, my point isn’t about massive flair-ups, it’s about the underlying ethos of the miserablist and of passive aggression.

A further point: people who are happy and satisfied find it much easier to luxuriate quietly in their warm bath of satisfaction: those who are dissatisfied tend to be the ones who protest and complain. It's just how life is.

Yes, I suppose there are really only two types of people in this world. Those who are happy with life and are positive, and those who are not, and need to find fault.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It must be great to be perfect.

[Beef Oven!]

Q.E.D.

[Richard Tarleton]

Yes, I suppose there are really only two types of people in this world. Those who are happy with life and are positive, and those who are not, and need to find fault.

What a ridiculous remark, beef! How about ..."and those who are not, and wish to work to make things better" ? There's quite a lot to be unhappy about, if you look around the world today (since you mention the world).

[Beef Oven!]

What a ridiculous remark, beef! How about ..."and those who are not, and wish to work to make things better" ? There's quite a lot to be unhappy about, if you look around the world today (since you mention the world).

I must take your word for it.

[ahinton]

I must take your word for it.

But the whole point of River was that there were no words! (wrote he, trying - probably vainly - to force the thread back on topic)...

Anyway, though, since you mention it, there are surely people who are generally happy with life and positive but who find fault on occasions when fault is to be found, just as there are those who are unhappy but who don't necessarily always find fault.

If there's one good thing that could emerge from this broadcast (given sufficient will in the right places) it's that a good look could be taken at certain kinds of R3 presentation and to think about whether improvements could be made along the lines of less verbal and other inconsequential interference with the music being presented; whether it will so emerge remains to be heard, I guess...

[french frank]

It was blatantly obvious that you were referring to MrGG, but that wasn’t my point. My point was that it was from his direction that an "intellectual debate" as you put it was coming from.

I can assure you, with hand on heart, Beefy, that I was not in that particular comment thinking of Gongers at all …

Now I'm going round to my local Korean café for a spot of supper and to write out my general thoughts about the River of Music, which criticisms I thought were justified and which not, what worked and what didn't. I think there is quite a lot to be said.

[antongould]

Should I Rede all this .... ????