Popular classics

[Guest]

Hello everyone. A mild complaint, by way of introduction:

Since the beginning of this year, i have noticed daytime R3 leaning considerably more on well-known popular classics. I feel sure we have heard 'Mars' and 'Jupiter' from The Planets about 3 times so far this year, along with things like the 'William Tell Overture', and any number of pieces used in TV advertisements over the past few decades.

It constitutes a noticeable rise in safe-playing, which is not what this listener expects from the BBC's most staunch outlet. No conservatory connoiseur, i'm usually surprised if i recognise anything. R3 has been a constant source of enlightenment to me with regards to the discovery of serious music, from the traditional to the avant-garde. But to suddenly start recognising pieces repeatedly, and from the most obvious places, is disappointing.

[salymap]

Join the club, old khayyam, you will find numerous threads moaning/commenting on this very thing. There are many 'Planets' and 'Ma Vlast' movements that never get played, while the popular ones are done to death.

[Bax-of-Delights]

Hello old khayam and as I see you are a newcomer: welcome to these boards.

The topic you raise is dealt with on any number of threads here but most notably on "End of Classical Collection" and "The Eternal Breakfast debate".
One of our number - suffolkcoastal - is assiduous in noting every composer and the works played on R3 and he will tell you that the trend towards the oft repeated pop classic is becoming much more noticeable throughout a major part of R3's output. Some composers with a large and varied output are only represented by a very small and limited number of oft played pieces.
For example: Bax's Tintagel played twice last week and once this week and probably a number of times throughout the year but you'd be hard pushed to find anything else by Bax coming through the R3's loudspeakers.

This is all part of R3's "entry point" marketing - although it does beg the question that if the majority of your output is for entry point listeners where does the station go next? It is a worrying state of affairs and I would recommend (sp?) the thread "The End of Classical Collection" as a good discussion on this very matter is on-going.

Edit: And as if to emphasise what we have all be saying - along comes Ma Vlast on Ao3 in its umpteenth outing this year.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm inclined to agree with the complaint but then again, if sufficiently interesting and varied performances are chosen, there can be some mitigation to the "Oh not again for ****** sake" effect. On Friday morning, my journey into work coincided with "Mars" bring played on Breakfast. "" you might well think. But it was a riveting performance (in great sound) which just suited my mood ("") - turns out it was the Steinberg/Boston recording which is much feted but which I'd never heard.

It's spurred me to listen to more of the reading.

Then again, there are popular classics and popular classics - The Planets I'm always pleased to hear, others (whoever was playing) would inspire only a , a and a :click: of the off button....

[old khayyam]

Edit: And as if to emphasise what we have all been saying - along comes Ma Vlast on Ao3 in its umpteenth outing this year.

On the plus side, i'm sure they'll only give it about 10 minutes before they fear offending the percieved attention span of the 'average' listener.

Having flicked through the "End of..." thread, btw, i see the matter is in good hands and there have been some very good points made. This only leaves the issue of 'how can we make them see sense?'

[remdataram]

I, too, am a newcomer and echo the sentiments of other board members.

However, an obvious benefit of 'entry point' marketing is that more people may listen. The fact is that listener numbers for Radio 3 are very low, making R3 vulnerable to being scrapped completely.

Like it or not Beethoven and Mahler, amongst many others, are composers that can attract much needed new listeners to R3. There is still time for Field and Finzi on any one day.

If more 'popular' music is the price to pay for securing the future of R3, it's a price worth paying.

I'll now crawl into a corner for a week or so..........

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'll now crawl into a corner for a week or so..........

No, don't do that. It's a valid point. However, the more Radio 3 become like CLassic FM, the more unnecessary it becomes. Why would the public need two classical music stations playing the same narrow selection of popular musical classics, all of which are available on CD and downloads for anyone, and at bargain prices?

[antongould]

I, too, am a newcomer and echo the sentiments of other board members.

However, an obvious benefit of 'entry point' marketing is that more people may listen. The fact is that listener numbers for Radio 3 are very low, making R3 vulnerable to being scrapped completely.

Like it or not Beethoven and Mahler, amongst many others, are composers that can attract much needed new listeners to R3. There is still time for Field and Finzi on any one day.

If more 'popular' music is the price to pay for securing the future of R3, it's a price worth paying.

I'll now crawl into a corner for a week or so..........

No please don't crawl away it is a point some of us have been making on these Boards for, it seems like, decades! Doesn't find a great deal of support but the view is "out there"!

[old khayyam]

'Night On Bare Mountain' again!

[MrGongGong]

along with the "right of spring"
i have a recording of "knight on a bear mountain"

priceless

[old khayyam]

'Toccata & Fugue in Dm' !

[Bax-of-Delights]

And don't forget that jolly old favourite normally played just after the 8 a.m. news - as it was today - Copland's "Hoedown".

[Serial_Apologist]

"Hoedown".

...Which Radio 3's output could do with nowadays! Most of the more intriguing output seems reserved for Through The Night. Had it not been for my insomnia, I would never have heard any music by the remarkable 19th century Polish composer Noskowski, whose very personal Symphony No 3 (From Spring to Spring) was broadcast at 3.16 this morning, let alone heard of him.

Another thing is the turning over of so much time to comparative nonentities on the pretext that "all that modernistic stuff" that is supposed to have "dominated" the airwaves in the 1960s and '70s never gave anyone a chance to reassess neglected composers. I am listening to the entire cycle of Parry symphonies this week, which really are much of a muchness, albeit pleasant enough in a nondescript kind of a way.

And yet another thing, deserving of a separate thread maybe. Does Sarah Walker either listen to, or know anything about, the pieces which she introduces on Classical Collection? Or is she just reading from someone else's script? As just one example, introducing Parry's "English" symphony this morning she made great play of its slow movement's influence on later English music, including Vaughan Williams's Tallis Fantasia. Listen as I might, I was unable to detect one single trace of the former on the latter. But hey, who cares, eh?

S-A

[Suffolkcoastal]

The Noskowski 3rd is one of TTN regularly recycled works, I recorded over 10 years ago in the same performance. I've recordings of all 3 of his symphonies and they are rather good, in fact Noskowski seems to have his own recognisable style. I'm fond of the Parry symphonies, the 4th & 5th are the best IMO. The slow movement of No 3 is actually closer to Elgar than Vaughan Williams and an example of what I think is called Higher Diatonicism which became a hallmark of many British composers in the period c1890-1915. The origins of this style seem to occur in SS Wesley & Goss and bothe Parry and Elgar seem to have either unconsiously or conciously absorbed certian stylistic features of these composers. It was Vaughan Williams that seems to have drawn attention to the link.

[old khayyam]

deserving of a separate thread maybe. Does Sarah Walker either listen to, or know anything about, the pieces which she introduceson Classical Collection? Or is she just reading from someone else's script?

Funny you should say that. I just recently brought up the subject of 'announcers' reading scripts on the "End Of Classical Collection" thread.