End in sight for Classical Collection?

[Word]

some in-depth analysis.

Don't you ever just want to listen to the music?

Anyone who supports that could sign up as a supporter of FoR3

I must admit that whenever I see Friends of Radio 3 mentioned I can't help thinking; "With friends like these..."

[pilamenon]

Here's my pitch for the new 9-12 slot.

It will be called Legato to show we are serious about music. It will be broadly divided into three sections each day. One third will be devoted to vintage/historic recordings, another third to recent CDs, and sandwiched in between for maximum contrast will be an weekly Artist Focus along the lines suggested by aeolium earlier in the thread. The durations of these sections will be not be fixed, and the first and third sections may be swapped around. All types of classical music will be included, from early to contemporary. Items will be scheduled sufficiently in advance for online and magazines to print proper listings and approximate timings. Occasionally, i.e. at least fortnightly, the schedule will be collapsed to allow for the playing of a complete opera recording, historic or modern, with Artist Focus continuing during the intervals.

This will not be a Through The Night-style CD jukebox, and will fulfil the station's remit to educate. Therefore, the presenter will take care to research informative introductions to each item.

[antongould]

I commend DracoM's posting for encapsulating much of what I think is wrong with the present direction of R3.

In truth the present trajectory of the programme planning will only ever be a poor imitation of CFM. These "entry point" listeners are fairly served by CFM and one would assume that, if they find the CFM repertoire consistently repetitive (as indeed it is), they will eventually migrate to R3 to deepen and widen their knowledge. Becoming a mirror image of CFM really doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Just what is R3 tryiing to achieve? Adding a million listeners to R3, 2 million? Well, let's ditch music altogether and just have interactive quiz shows. You'll get your audience then.

But, of course, the intellectual and aesthetic quality that should be the seed-bed of thought, argument and enquiry goes out the window. I can't believe that the R3 presenters - with some notable celeb exceptions - can be at all happy with the way the station is being driven headlong into a cul-de-sac. These are people who have a lifetime of working with and in a high intellectual world. Now they are interviewing Steve Punt and playing the umpteenth version of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet - just so they can please, well, WHO exactly?

Can I ask where these "entry point" listeners like myself are to be served if they are firm believers in Public Service Broadcasting and hate with a vengeance most terrible endless b***dy adverts?

[aeolium]

My view is that R3 shouldn't be broadcasting anything that doesn't strongly appeal to the intellect: that is, it should demand that we THINK about what we hear, lead us on further [*e-duc-ate*]. To me, that is the defining requirement of Radio 3; whether it's music (of any kind), drama, poetry, thought...

I wouldn't entirely go along with that, as imo it would seem to be demanding an exclusively intellectual audience. I don't think the best of classical music or the spoken arts should be confined to that audience. I think there is plenty of good music (and poetry and other literature) which does not overridingly appeal to the intellect, but at least as strongly to the senses. Much of the classical canon was not written for intellectual giants to listen to, but for court patrons and the aristocracy (not usually the brightest stars in the firmament ).

Yes, there should be accurate and informed comment, ideally free from hyperbole and the excessive praise that has no value. I would also like more, and better, analytical and comparative programmes. But I wouldn't want R3 to become, at least in part, a sort of OU Musicology course. I do want it to take seriously what it provides, so that whether it is music, poetry or drama it can appear in its best light - not chopped up or treated as a commodity.

[Panjandrum]

I must admit that whenever I see Friends of Radio 3 mentioned I can't help thinking; "With friends like these..."

When an old friend goes off the rails and starts behaving like a teenager desperate to get new friends one has to tell them some home truths. That's the kind of friends we are.

[french frank]

Don't you ever just want to listen to the music?

Those who want to 'just listen' are free to do so, like now. Or they can 'just listen' to CDs. The 'in depth analysis', as was clear in what I wrote would be around the music being broadcast.

I must admit that whenever I see Friends of Radio 3 mentioned I can't help thinking; "With friends like these..."

How original - there used to be a poster on the old boards who called himself at one point 'Fiends like these' (aka Nigerian Sam or Kagemushka Taiku). I would really be extremely interested to know what your criticism is of the FoR3 view. I mean, like, I would be interested.

R3 at the moment is, like the rest of the BBC, a marketer's dream: full of brands, promotions, publicity stunts, PR material. It doesn't have to be like this

[Paul Sherratt]

>>Do we interpret this as confirmation, etc


Blimey Frances that's a pretty desperate device you've used to knock a programme you don't enjoy too much !
Anyway if you want my honest opinion ( for what its worth ) I think Radio 3 as some here would like it to be has gone for good. And I strongly suspect that there's really no significant audience anymore.




( goes in search of crash helmet )

[antongould]

R3 at the moment is, like the rest of the BBC, a marketer's dream: full of brands, promotions, publicity stunts, PR material. It doesn't have to be like this

.....and obviously an "outsourcer's", if there is such a word, dream. Why does the new Classical Collection have to be outsourced? Why does it take an outside company to produce Private Passions in Michael Berkley's house? In my job I have lived for the past 15 years with the wonder that is outsourcing and nothing, and I mean nothing, that has been outsourced, is now done better than before the charade started and the ratio of company staff cost to company own output is much much higher than it ever was!!

[Paul Sherratt]

ff will have the details anton, but the whole of the bbc is required to use a certain percentage of independent producers
for its output.

[antongould]

I know but why?

[Paul Sherratt]

Probably because some politicians thought it would be ' a good thing '

[hafod]

According to the website the BBC’s mission is “To enrich people's lives with programmes and services that inform, educate and entertain”.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/purpose/

So far, so good.

A couple of extracts from the Radio 3 Programme Policy 2010/2011:

“Service Remit: The remit of Radio 3 is to offer a mix of music and cultural programming in order to engage and entertain its audience .......... The service should appeal to listeners of any age seeking to expand their cultural horizons through engagement with the world of music and the arts.
Controller's vision for the service in 2010/2011: “.......Radio 3 also aspires to open the minds of our audience to new sounds, works of art and ideas, and to take our listeners on journeys of discovery by expanding their range of experience in the world of music and the arts”.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/statements2010/radio/radio3.shtml

Amen to that.

But a little further on just two key challenges for BBC Radio 3 in 2010/2011 are listed.

“Challenge: Encouraging potential listeners to sample the station, in particular those who might be unaware of what Radio 3 has to offer.
Radio 3 will develop its breakfast and drivetime programmes as primary entry points for new listeners, with an engaging combination of music, topical information and audience interaction.
The station will encourage the interest of potential listeners through seasons, based around the Proms, Free Thinking, Human Planet and special programming on featured composers.

Challenge: Challenging some traditional perceptions of classical music.
Radio 3 will provide high-profile opportunities for participation in music-making, bringing people together and presenting classical music to the listening audience as an opportunity for enjoyment and communal activity.
It will increase the opportunities for a wide range of people to express their individual musical passions on air”.

Just as we thought - the priority is RATINGS!!! What happened to ‘inform’ and ‘educate’?

[Mark Sealey]

With respect, Paul, I believe you may be misunderstanding FF in the post you refer to :-)

This has much, much less to do with 'liking' or 'realism'; everything to do with defence.

…*Blimey Frances that's a pretty desperate device … I think Radio 3 as some here would like it to be has gone for good…

[Eudaimonia]

(did you stay in with a good bottle of wine over in NYC?). The main problem is: you don't understand the politics and you appear not to be a particularly avid listener to R3 (at least, you have very little to say about it).

Could we please discuss the issues without turning the conversation toward personal remarks? I don't have anything to prove, so let's move on. I will say you're right about one thing, though: I haven't made a habit of "avidly" tuning in to presenters I don't like playing lightweight repertoire in the hopes of "playing watchdog" and catching everyone out in factual errors. Being the Mary Whitehouse of Radio 3 just doesn't hold any appeal for me...to each his own.

Someone has to keep picking away at these things.

Do you have any proof that all your complaining about sloppy, substandard presenting and lazy fact-checking has made one whit of difference toward encouraging people to get their acts together? Or have all you succeeded in doing is making yourselves look like you're stuck on trivialities at the expense of more substantial issues? I don't like it any more than you do, but it is something to be mindful of as we're all merrily cackling away at the spelling mistake du jour. It's not that it doesn't matter-- quite the contrary. But I don't think the way you're doing it is exactly going to win friends and influence people.

At least one can make them feel horribly, horribly guilty.

If I had to make a bet, I'd wager that nobody at Radio 3 cares a fig what you (or any of us) think beyond the bare minimum needed to keep you from making trouble with the Trust and the media. Every time they flip you a minuscule crumb of information that keeps you playing along, you're being completely managed.

They might as well officially call the new programme 'Extended Breakfast' when it begins.

Is it really fair to make up your mind about a programme that doesn't even exist yet? This thread was supposed to offer positive suggestions for the upcoming replacement for Classical Collection. If we can't contribute anything useful within the framework we're given-- i.e. the station as it exists now-- what's the point? Let's not keep making the same old points we've made elsewhere.

Fortunately, Draco and others have made a lot of very well-considered, worthwhile comments, which I look forward to thinking about this evening.

[antongould]

Probably because some politicians thought it would be ' a good thing '

Enough said then!