'Patronising' Radio 3 boss etc.

[french frank]

Yes, I perceived it as snobbish - perhaps it actually was.

And perhaps not. But as for what the Facebook post was driving at, I seem to remember it was the rare pleasure of seeing a Freesat (or whatever) monitor in a public place tuned to Radio 3. Wasn't that the post you were referring to?

And I don't think my post was off-topic.

I wouldn't dare to accuse you of such a thing - but mine was more on-topic than yours, since it was about the S. Telegraph article mentioned in the subject title.

[Beef Oven!]

I don't know what the post was about - I just picked up on the snobbish nature of the words underneath the image.

Having a passion for R3 and a personal indebtedness from the mid 60s to this radio station, it depresses me to see how it is sliding away. I perceive a lack of ability to adapt to a Y2k+ audience and modern social phenomena, as the heart of the problem. Snobbery, elitism and esotericism being particular problems. We put up with all that, younger people turn their back.

[french frank]

I don't know what the post was about - I just picked up on the snobbish nature of the words underneath the image.

You clicked on the photo, read the caption and didn't read the post that comes up alongside it:

"The Image of R3: forum member relaxing in the bar at Brands Hatch on Saturday was pleasantly surprised by emanations from the sound system. Way to go, Radio 3:"

It was the fact that this was in a bar at Brands Hatch that surprised - and if you're suggesting people should not go to Brands Hatch, should not eat brunch while listening to the music from the public sound system, should not declare it 'civilised' (and incidentally - you read it on the forum first, as they say - I just nabbed a screen shot of the photo) then, as indeed it seems, you're part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.

The idea that Radio 3 should adapt so far 'to a Y2k+ [note that!] audience and modern social phenomena' as to cheese off its actual audience in order to attract 'potential' new listeners is the same strategy as has been in place for the past 20 years and, predictably, failed.

Let Classic FM, god bless it, attract the students who listen while focusing on their work and all the new children it claims are now listening (this story has cropped up before: probably means 'more this quarter than last, and we'll say nothing next quarter if it goes down again').

I want Radio 3 to be esoteric from time to time (you can't accuse Radio 3 of being that most of the time).

'Snobbish' and 'elitist' are terms used inaccurately with no real meaning: they're insults. Boo, to them.

[Beef Oven!]

You clicked on the photo, read the caption and didn't read the post that comes up alongside it:

"The Image of R3: forum member relaxing in the bar at Brands Hatch on Saturday was pleasantly surprised by emanations from the sound system. Way to go, Radio 3:"

I read it, but it didn't conjure up much for me.

It was the fact that this was in a bar at Brands Hatch that surprised - and if you're suggesting people should not go to Brands Hatch, should not eat brunch while listening to the music from the public sound system, should not declare it 'civilised' (and incidentally - you read it on the forum first, as they say - I just nabbed a screen shot of the photo) then, as indeed it seems, you're part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.

I suffer from hay fever - too many straw-men for me....but, if that's how you see it, you are part of the problem, not me.

The idea that Radio 3 should adapt so far 'to a Y2k+ [note that!] audience and modern social phenomena' as to cheese off its actual audience in order to attract 'potential' new listeners is the same strategy as has been in place for the past 20 years and, predictably, failed.

I'll risk cheesing off the crusty ones, I think it might save the station.

Let Classic FM, god bless it, attract the students who listen while focusing on their work and all the new children it claims are now listening (this story has cropped up before: probably means 'more this quarter than last, and we'll say nothing next quarter if it goes down again').

There's no right way to listen to music, no matter what you say.

I want Radio 3 to be esoteric from time to time (you can't accuse Radio 3 of being that most of the time).

I agree with from time to time. In fact I don't want it to be esoteric from time to time, I believe it must be. Perhaps I don't agree, then.

'Snobbish' and 'elitist' are terms used inaccurately with no real meaning: they're insults. Boo, to them.

We all know what the terms mean and how they are used, stop pretending.

[Richard Tarleton]

"The Image of R3: forum member relaxing in the bar at Brands Hatch on Saturday was pleasantly surprised by emanations from the sound system. Way to go, Radio 3:"

Surely this was none other than our very own..... (I can't see the Facebook page but remember the post in question. Brown brogues were involved, if it's the one I'm thinking about...). Light-hearted yes, snobbish, no.

[Beef Oven!]

Surely this was none other than our very own..... (I can't see the Facebook page but remember the post in question. Brown brogues were involved, if it's the one I'm thinking about...). Light-hearted yes, snobbish, no.

Perhaps I didn't get the context....

[Quarky]

I don't think it's fair to accuse her of snobbery - at one point she spoke about two items she was going to play, then said 'but first' she was going to play something else. This is very common, and if it's confusing, it's nothing to do with snobbishness.

With this sort of programme, the more talk, the less music; it's always a question of balance.

Many thanks for responses to my post. That has clarified my mind about a variety of issues.

I can accept that the issue I raised was probably created by a programming decision. As regards wider issues of adverse perceptions of Classical music by the general public, I can accept that these perceptions are to an extent counter-acted by the efforts of R3 and CFM. However Beefie has picked up on this point very nicely - he's far better at this Message board thing!

[french frank]

Surely this was none other than our very own..... (I can't see the Facebook page but remember the post in question. Brown brogues were involved, if it's the one I'm thinking about...). Light-hearted yes, snobbish, no.

Yes, I was waiting for him to own up and take the flak

[doversoul1]

Perhaps I didn't get the context....

I don’t completely disagree with you (re: your post about the Trifonov Pag-Rhap etc.) that this sort of ‘in-talk’ does have a whiff of something akin to snobbery when seen by non-members. I think any support organisations have a degree of exclusive air but as this is a private chat amongst the members, it is unfair to blame the organisation itself (Radio3 in this case). If any Radio 3 presenters are found talking in this way on their programmes, then we should protest.

As for classical music, I don’t see why you (or I) need to be bothered about how some people may perceive it.

[french frank]

Interesting comment by Adam Bowie, Rajar expert:

"I notice that the controller of Classic FM having another dig at Radio 3 in the press recently. I’m never quite sure about why that is because Classic FM has an audience of 5.5m (up 0.6% on the quarter, down 0.9% on the year) – way ahead of Radio 3’s 2.05m reach (down 0.9% on the quarter, up 1.0%) on the year. 819,000 people listen to both stations. So while a full third of Radio 3’s audience listen to Classic FM, only 15% of Classic FM’s audience ever listen to Radio 3. That suggests that Classic FM is a far bigger threat to Radio 3 than vice versa."

[doversoul1]

Interesting comment by Adam Bowie, Rajar expert:

"I notice that the controller of Classic FM having another dig at Radio 3 in the press recently. I’m never quite sure about why that is because Classic FM has an audience of 5.5m (up 0.6% on the quarter, down 0.9% on the year) – way ahead of Radio 3’s 2.05m reach (down 0.9% on the quarter, up 1.0%) on the year. 819,000 people listen to both stations. So while a full third of Radio 3’s audience listen to Classic FM, only 15% of Classic FM’s audience ever listen to Radio 3. That suggests that Classic FM is a far bigger threat to Radio 3 than vice versa."

Well I suppose the controller of CFM is worried that if Radio3 ever succeeds in copying CFM, the ‘full third of Radio 3’s audience’ won’t bother to listen to CFM. And R3 did look as if it was about to achieve it.

[french frank]

Well I suppose the controller of CFM is worried that if Radio3 ever succeeds in copying CFM, the ‘full third of Radio 3’s audience’ won’t bother to listen to CFM. And R3 did look as if it was about to achieve it.

As I said in my website article, Jackson's comments were a bit out of date.

The overlap is slightly lower than it has been - last time I saw a figure quoted it was 843,000. And the thing is, if AD steams ahead with 'Third Programme' type scheduling, the overlap may get even smaller as people opt for the easy way out and switch completely to CFM. May be a question of keeping his nerve …

I'm already curious as to what ideas he has for interesting teenagers in classical music. I wonder how the new Ten Pieces has been received.

[VodkaDilc]

I don't know what the post was about - I just picked up on the snobbish nature of the words underneath the image.

Having a passion for R3 and a personal indebtedness from the mid 60s to this radio station, it depresses me to see how it is sliding away. I perceive a lack of ability to adapt to a Y2k+ audience and modern social phenomena, as the heart of the problem. Snobbery, elitism and esotericism being particular problems. We put up with all that, younger people turn their back.

I've read right through this thread to try to discover what Y2k+ means. I've tried saying it out loud to see if it's some sort of shorthand, but all I can think of is O Level Algebra. Can anyone enlighten me?

[vinteuil]

I've read right through this thread to try to discover what Y2k+ means. I've tried saying it out loud to see if it's some sort of shorthand, but all I can think of is O Level Algebra. Can anyone enlighten me?

... I think someone's trying to be dead trendy here : ' Year 2000 onwards' ?

The sort of thing aspirational middle-management uses to make others think they've read big books.

[VodkaDilc]

... I think someone's trying to be dead trendy here : ' Year 2000 onwards' ?

The sort of thing aspirational middle-management uses to make others think they've read big books.

Thank you, vinteuil. I would never have guessed. Isn't the point of abbrevations that they save time, while also being familiar to everyone reading them? Perhaps 21st century would have conveyed the meaning more clearly.