'Patronising' Radio 3 boss etc.

[Quarky]

I think if more 'young people' are tuning into Classic FM that's absolutely marvellous. Also, what the CFM boss says about R3 is absolutely true!

However, I don't how anyone can ascertain the number in a certain age-group who tune-in to any station. Do modern radios, etc, have spy-cameras?

We have to assume any figures are calculated from surveys done on behalf of the broadcaster and these can be notoriously unreliable and untrustworthy.

Still, if true, that's very encouraging news ... CFM will be the obvious first step for many exploring classical music.

Agree with you on this one P.G. T.

As regards jazz programmes in the afternoon, well Suzy Klein is pretty Jazzy, isn't she? Alan Davy is going strongly in the right direction, imv, and is creating miles of clear water. Further he shows, by comparison, how hopeless Roger Wright was at running this station.

Harking back to the discussion on the term "Classical", which I actually think is a good term, which has various shades of meaning, and is in need of reenergising rather than discarding, there is one issue about Classical music, and Radio 3, and that is perceived snobbery. May be snobbery is endemic in any specialist or minority interest, and arises for various reasons, including self-defence from the world outside. I certainly wouldn't accuse Alan Davey of this, but I think he would be well advised to root out any perception of snobbery in the broadcast programmes. This is one area where Classic FM is an improvement over Radio 3.

[ahinton]

Harking back to the discussion on the term "Classical", which I actually think is a good term, which has various shades of meaning, and is in need of reenergising rather than discarding, there is one issue about Classical music, and Radio 3, and that is perceived snobbery. May be snobbery is endemic in any specialist or minority interest, and arises for various reasons, including self-defence from the world outside. I certainly wouldn't accuse Alan Davey of this, but I think he would be well advised to root out any perception of snobbery in the broadcast programmes.

How might you propose that this be achieved?

[teamsaint]

He really has been reading through the previous Global/Classic criticisms aimed at R. Wright's R. Three.

I've written my piece on Facebook: I see it as just a confected, cynically-timed attack.

Reports back to me suggest a mixed reception for such initiatives as New Year, New Music-Northern Lights - the folk music &c. One thing they're not is "aping" Classic FM. If people don't enjoy such output, then it makes sense to switch off/over until they've finished. To my mind, Radio 3, uniquely, SHOULD be a station that people switch off, rather than one that burbles cheerfully along in the background all day long, pleasing as many people as possible.

It really is disappointing that the immersion initiatives, ( New Music, Women Composers, Folk) consistently turn out just to be a short term, box ticking exercise, instead of a launch pad for innovative, in depth, quality additions to the R3 mix.
A fair bit of effort and resource must ( in fact a disproportionate?) go into these specials.

Better surely to bring that resource to the regular weekly programming, and make the mix more distinctive, more of the time?

[french frank]

I don't think the Women Composers has been short term - they crop up more than previously - someone mentioned Libby Larsen on Essential Classics! But most of the impact comes with the immersion seasons, I think. I wouldn't call them box-ticking.

[Quarky]

How might you propose that this be achieved?

I’m sure Alan Davey is not short of people telling him what to do. But I'm talking about perceived snobbery, that is the face that R3, or Classical music in general, presents to the outside world. Radio 3 should bend over backwards to avoid any impression of this, in my view ; “accessibility” should be key.

An extremely tricky subject, and I don’t have any answers. Probably there is no easy answer. Take the analogy of a garden with weeds. Overall application of weed killer would kill off the flowers as well. The only solution is to pull out each individual weed in a very laborious process.

As an example of the type of issue that concerns me, consider Early Music, a specialist area which has more than its fair share of snobbery. This weekend Lucy Skeaping presented a programme on the influence of Folk connections in Early Music. What could be more accessible and less snobbish than such a programme? And yet Lucy, who in general was very good, I thought, presented series of four diverse musical items, consecutively, having discussed them previously, but not in the order in which they were played, and therefore placing heavy demands on the listeners’ memories. Was this implicitly snobbish? Even worse, elitist? Bad programming? Or am I just being thick? The programme producer might have concluded that it might possibly be interpreted as a bit snobbish, and might have taken remedial action.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I’m sure Alan Davey is not short of people telling him what to do. But I'm talking about perceived snobbery, that is the face that R3, or Classical music in general, presents to the outside world. Radio 3 should bend over backwards to avoid any impression of this, in my view ; “accessibility” should be key.

Radio 3 has always been accessible. I used to listen to it on my crystal set when in the dormitories at boarding school, using the metal bed as an aerial and the hot water pipes to earth the contraption. It was medium wave only, but certainly accessible. I have come into contact with many examples of musical snobbery in my time, but never from Radio 3.

We really don't need to be subjected to the cheap and patronising methods of CB-H, SR & CFM.

[jean]

As an example of the type of issue that concerns me, consider Early Music, a specialist area which has more than its fair share of snobbery. This weekend Lucy Skeaping presented a programme on the influence of Folk connections in Early Music. What could be more accessible and less snobbish than such a programme? And yet Lucy, who in general was very good, I thought, presented series of four diverse musical items, consecutively, having discussed them previously, but not in the order in which they were played, and therefore placing heavy demands on the listeners’ memories.

I don't think it's fair to accuse her of snobbery - at one point she spoke about two items she was going to play, then said 'but first' she was going to play something else. This is very common, and if it's confusing, it's nothing to do with snobbishness.

With this sort of programme, the more talk, the less music; it's always a question of balance.

(I have other problems with her presentation, which I'd better put on the relevant thread)

[doversoul1]

I’m sure Alan Davey is not short of people telling him what to do. But I'm talking about perceived snobbery, that is the face that R3, or Classical music in general, presents to the outside world. Radio 3 should bend over backwards to avoid any impression of this, in my view ; “accessibility” should be key.

An extremely tricky subject, and I don’t have any answers. Probably there is no easy answer. Take the analogy of a garden with weeds. Overall application of weed killer would kill off the flowers as well. The only solution is to pull out each individual weed in a very laborious process.

As an example of the type of issue that concerns me, consider Early Music, a specialist area which has more than its fair share of snobbery. This weekend Lucy Skeaping presented a programme on the influence of Folk connections in Early Music. What could be more accessible and less snobbish than such a programme? And yet Lucy, who in general was very good, I thought, presented series of four diverse musical items, consecutively, having discussed them previously, but not in the order in which they were played, and therefore placing heavy demands on the listeners’ memories. Was this implicitly snobbish? Even worse, elitist? Bad programming? Or am I just being thick? The programme producer might have concluded that it might possibly be interpreted as a bit snobbish, and might have taken remedial action.

I do really take issue with this. Snobbery? Early music? How on earth have you come to this opinion? I agree that last week’s Early Music show was a little confusing but to see it as the programme being snobbish seems to me quite extraordinary. Or am I being thick?

Sorry, Oddball. I don’t meant to blow up what it was meant to be just a small example but, really, early music doesn’t even have fair share of time on the schedule and snobbery is the last thing it needs to be associated with. We (I, at least) early music fans are grateful for being given any small morsel of time on the schedule and hardly ever complain, etc., etc., etc….

Anyway back to the point of the thread. The worst thing Roger Wright did (I don’t believe it was a mistake) was to confuse accessibility with availability. Before he came along and actually announced that it was not elitist, I don’t think Radio 3 (and classical music) was seen as such. It was simply a station for a minority interest. He broke the station in order to mend it to suit his idea.

The best thing Alan Davey and Radio 3 can do now it to ignore and forget all that nonsense about elitist and snobbery, and just get on with what they believe the station should be doing. Radio 3 is available to anyone who has the will to listen and learn, and accessible to anyone who has a radio.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't think it's fair to accuse her of snobbery - at one point she spoke about two items she was going to play, then said 'but first' she was going to play something else. This is very common, and if it's confusing, it's nothing to do with snobbishness.

I agree that last week’s Early Music show was a little confusing but to see it as the programme being snobbish seems to me quite extraordinary.

- the "We'll get back to that later" style of presentation spoils a lot of otherwise very good programmes (on TV as well as Radio) and seems to be based on the idea that audiences can't/don't want to concentrate a topic for more than about five minutes, so it's split up across a programme. "Snobbish" isn't the correct word, but "patronising" might more accurately fit.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"Perceived snobbishness" is exactly what it says on the tin. The issue here is within the mind of the person who perceives it. There's little anyone can do about it.

[Beef Oven!]

On the Facebook Friends of Radio 3, I read a post that said "it was good having a cooked brunch shortly after that with the Trifonov Pag-Rhap 'Disc of the week' playing in the background....Civilised. "

I don't know what they were driving at, but it seemed snobbish - and I thought we were meant to turn R3 off if we weren't listening properly to it.

[french frank]

I don't know what they were driving at, but it seemed snobbish - and I thought we were meant to turn R3 off if we weren't listening properly to it.

It was perceived as snobbish.

Anyway, on topic, this is the latest story on the magnificent FoR3 website where, unlike on Facebook, you don't get [the] οἱ πολλοί

About to add an update: contrary to general belief, it seems that Radio 3 has never had any thought of broadcasting a regular programme featuring video game music. Pity, but someone seems to have made that up

[Beef Oven!]

It was perceived as snobbish.

Anyway, on topic, this is the latest story on the magnificent FoR3 website where, unlike on Facebook, you don't get [the] οἱ πολλοί

About to add an update: contrary to general belief, it seems that Radio 3 has never had any thought of broadcasting a regular programme featuring video game music. Pity, but someone seems to have made that up

Yes, I perceived it as snobbish - perhaps it actually was.

And I don't think my post was off-topic.

I agree that it's a pity that R3 don't have a programme focusing on game-music. Whoever made it up, might've been trying to give R3 a helping hand.

[jean]

Yes, I perceived it as snobbish...

Why, exactly?

Was it the mention of brunch?

Or the sense of entitlement, the over-familiarity of 'Pag-Rhap'?

[Beef Oven!]

Why, exactly?

Was it the mention of brunch?

Or the sense of entitlement, the over-familiarity of 'Pag-Rhap'?

And 'civilised'.