Regional accents- the last straw.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
    Gone fishin'
    • Sep 2011
    • 30163

    Originally posted by cloughie View Post
    Talking of whom his narration of Peter and the Wolf is in my recently acquired Markevitch ICON box - I'll have a listen to his dulcets!


    I love his pronunciation of "Clarionet" - a real sense (and piece) of history.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

    Comment

    • vinteuil
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 12765

      Originally posted by worlingworth1 View Post
      Just a suggestion; how about the announcers just speaking latin while dress in wing collar and top hat !!! with of course the female presenters only wearing a Norman Hartnell evening gown even for the morning programme. Personally I thought ethnic cleansing would have been best left to johnny foreigner. I don't suppose I could interest any of you lot in membership of the Wilfred Pickles appreciation society !!
      ... ah, but will Miss Worling-Worth have passed the entry examination? Only candidates who have shewn at least Matriculation competence will be permitted access to the air-waves to hear what will will be on offer from the 'Third Programme', as we call it.

      Comment

      • MrGongGong
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 18357

        Originally posted by Lat-Literal View Post
        and so was Robert Robinson, a fellow Liverpudlian.


        Who found it impossible to say the word Margarine

        Comment

        • jean
          Late member
          • Nov 2010
          • 7100

          I'm not quite sure how he did pronounce it, but if it wasn't what you expected to hear, I'm prepared to bet that had more to do with his awareness of the word's origins than with any trace of his native accent.

          Comment

          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
            Who found it impossible to say the word Margarine
            Hard "G" or soft (or should that be "spreadable")?

            Michael Barrett (of Nationwide fame) pronounces/d it with a hard G.

            (Personally, I find margarine impossible to swallow!)
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

            Comment

            • vinteuil
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 12765

              "OED (1905 ) gives as the pronunciation only (mā·ɹgărīn), with /-g-/ ; this pronunciation, which became rare in the second half of the 20th cent., probably underlies the nickname Maggie Ann (see maggie n. 4). OED. (1902 ), however, s.v. Oleomargarine, notes that the latter is ‘Often mispronounced (-mā·ɹdʒərīn), as if spelt -margerine’ (i.e. with /-dʒ-/ ). The latter pronunciation is recorded in 1913 (with subordinate status) by H. Michaelis & D. Jones Phonetic Dict. Eng. Lang.; the shortened form marge, in which -ge also implies pronunciation with /-dʒ-/ , is attested within ten years of this (see 1922 at marge n.2). The shift of stress, outside North American English, from the first to the final syllable is also first evidenced in the 1913 source."

              ... the etymology provided by wiki is confusing, but clearly a hard g in either case wd be required -

              "Margarine originated with the discovery by French chemist Michel Eugène Chevreul in 1813 of margaric acid (itself named after the pearly deposits of the fatty acid from Greek μαργαρίτης or μάργαρον (margaritēs / márgaron), meaning pearl-oyster or pearl,[8] or μαργαρίς (margarís), meaning palm-tree, hence the relevance to palmitic acid). Scientists at the time regarded margaric acid, like oleic acid and stearic acid, as one of the three fatty acids which, in combination, formed most animal fats. In 1853, the German structural chemist Wilhelm Heinrich Heintz analyzed margaric acid as simply a combination of stearic acid and the previously unknown palmitic acid."

              ... in the end a poor succedaneum for what I wd normally pronounce as : /ˈbʌtə(r)/

              Comment

              • jean
                Late member
                • Nov 2010
                • 7100

                N.E.D. (1905) gives as the pronunciation only (mā·ɹgărīn), with /-ɡ-/ ; this pronunciation, which became rare in the second half of the 20th cent., probably underlies the nickname Maggie Ann (see maggie n. 4). N.E.D. (1902), however, s.v. Oleomargarine, notes that the latter is ‘Often mispronounced (-mā·ɹdʒərīn), as if spelt -margerine ’ (i.e. with /-dʒ-/ ). The latter pronunciation is recorded in 1913 (with subordinate status) by H. Michaelis & D. Jones Phonetic Dict. Eng. Lang.; the shortened form marge , in which -ge also implies pronunciation with /-dʒ-/ , is attested within ten years of this (see 1922 at marge n.2). The shift of stress, outside North American English, from the first to the final syllable is also first evidenced in the 1913 source.

                The French so named it from

                < ancient Greek μαργαρ- (in μαργαρίτης margarite n.1)...The substance was so called on account of its having the appearance of mother-of-pearl.

                Comment

                • Eine Alpensinfonie
                  Host
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 20569

                  Originally posted by cloughie View Post
                  Talking of whom his narration of Peter and the Wolf is in my recently acquired Markevitch ICON box - I'll have a listen to his dulcets!
                  Sir John Gielgud pronounces it the same way on his recording of P&TW. Surely he should have known better.

                  Comment

                  • Eine Alpensinfonie
                    Host
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 20569

                    Originally posted by jean View Post
                    The shift of stress, outside North American English, from the first to the final syllable is also first evidenced in the 1913 source.
                    I thought the 1st & 3rd syllables were given balanced stresses, like a 6/8 bar: crotchet - quaver - dotted quaver.

                    Comment

                    • vinteuil
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 12765

                      Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                      I thought the 1st & 3rd syllables were given balanced stresses, like a 6/8 bar: crotchet - quaver - dotted quaver.
                      ... more, I think, that it has moved from being a dactyl -



                      to being an anapaest -



                      I don't hear it as a cretic -

                      Comment

                      • MrGongGong
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 18357

                        Originally posted by jean View Post
                        I'm not quite sure how he did pronounce it, but if it wasn't what you expected to hear, I'm prepared to bet that had more to do with his awareness of the word's origins than with any trace of his native accent.
                        Is there anyone else who so epitomises the phoneyness of RP?

                        Comment

                        • Eine Alpensinfonie
                          Host
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 20569

                          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                          . . . the phoneyness of RP?
                          In what way is it phoney?

                          Comment

                          • Eine Alpensinfonie
                            Host
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 20569

                            Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                            Interesting stuff.

                            Comment

                            • Serial_Apologist
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 37559

                              Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                              In what way is it phoney?
                              Because it's become a class as opposed to a local or regional accent, maybe? - overruling localised differences of accent and dialect?

                              Comment

                              • jean
                                Late member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 7100

                                Or is it only 'phoney' if you weren't born to it, and can (as was the case with Alpie's unfortunate teacher) get found out?

                                I wasn't sure if RR's pronunciation of margarine was supposed to be part of the finding-out process.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X