Late-evening pleasures on Radio 3

[Roslynmuse]

I've been following this thread over the past week with interest and at times surprise - mostly because there were so many positive posts on the first couple of pages. I've been reflecting and thinking about my habits over the years and what remains of them.

I remember writing something similar on another thread recently, but I first encountered Radio 3 as an eleven year old, given a radio by school teacher who knew of my interest in music and was surprised that I had not encountered Radio 3 before (we were a Radio 4 household, and the radio was provided courtesy of Rediffusion - Radio 4, Radio 2 and local radio only). This was 1976. I started to buy the Radio Times and mark off the programmes I wanted to listen to. The radio was very old and didn't last long but the Radio Times habit stayed and I sought out anything and everything available on the Rediffusion radio (a massive brown box in the corner of the room with a dial on the wall) - the point being that I had caught the bug of listening and educating myself as far as I could based on what was available to me. We bought another radio with FM a few years later and Radio 3 was back in my life, around the time I was doing my O Levels. In between, I had started reading Gramophone and subscribed to the local record library so I was getting an education through several sources.

I strongly believe that there is such a thing as too much choice. How can one filter the offerings available now on YouTube, Spotify, Naxos Music Library etc? I was mostly quite disciplined about how I systematically went through the record library collection. And I was organized with my Radio 3 listening. What would I do if I was 11 years old now? Be presented with a bewildering array of music, but very little context for it. That I think is what I miss most from the current Radio 3. There is music being broadcast now 24 hrs a day, the selection is in many ways far broader than it ever was; but I would not learn from the programming what I learned in the mid 70s and early 80s. Similarly, I learned much from LP sleeves that is simply not there if one is streaming or surfing YouTube (NML is better).

I should add that as an 11 year old I did not consider that I was "educating myself" - I wanted to listen, I wanted to read about the music, but I would have described it as entertaining myself rather than educating myself. Now, though, I see that I was educating myself at the same time, in the Reithian manner. And I don't see any space in the riches currently available so easily and in such baffling abundance where another young me would be educated with such a light touch.

So, yes, to those who mourn the loss of speech radio about music, intelligent discussion about music, treating the music with respect (silence before and after). And regretting the intrusions of falsely enthusiastic presenters and trails that irritate so much that they are the main reason I no longer listen. If I see something listed that I really want to hear I will find it later on Sounds rather than listen live; but in reality that too is all about treating the music with respect, and I will more often go to my CDs now.

[Nick Armstrong]

I've been following this thread over the past week with interest …

…

… regretting the intrusions of falsely enthusiastic presenters and trails that irritate so much that they are the main reason I no longer listen. If I see something listed that I really want to hear I will find it later on Sounds rather than listen live; but in reality that too is all about treating the music with respect, and I will more often go to my CDs now.

What a thoughtful post, Roslynmuse (I’ve only pruned the quote for manageability) - in its entirety, it largely echoes my thoughts and recollections… except that I was nearer 15, and my CDs still remain untouched for years in favour of other sources, in place of R3.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've been following this thread over the past week with interest and at times surprise - mostly because there were so many positive posts on the first couple of pages. I've been reflecting and thinking about my habits over the years and what remains of them.

I remember writing something similar on another thread recently, but I first encountered Radio 3 as an eleven year old, given a radio by school teacher who knew of my interest in music and was surprised that I had not encountered Radio 3 before (we were a Radio 4 household, and the radio was provided courtesy of Rediffusion - Radio 4, Radio 2 and local radio only). This was 1976. I started to buy the Radio Times and mark off the programmes I wanted to listen to. The radio was very old and didn't last long but the Radio Times habit stayed and I sought out anything and everything available on the Rediffusion radio (a massive brown box in the corner of the room with a dial on the wall) - the point being that I had caught the bug of listening and educating myself as far as I could based on what was available to me. We bought another radio with FM a few years later and Radio 3 was back in my life, around the time I was doing my O Levels. In between, I had started reading Gramophone and subscribed to the local record library so I was getting an education through several sources.

I strongly believe that there is such a thing as too much choice. How can one filter the offerings available now on YouTube, Spotify, Naxos Music Library etc? I was mostly quite disciplined about how I systematically went through the record library collection. And I was organized with my Radio 3 listening. What would I do if I was 11 years old now? Be presented with a bewildering array of music, but very little context for it. That I think is what I miss most from the current Radio 3. There is music being broadcast now 24 hrs a day, the selection is in many ways far broader than it ever was; but I would not learn from the programming what I learned in the mid 70s and early 80s. Similarly, I learned much from LP sleeves that is simply not there if one is streaming or surfing YouTube (NML is better).

I should add that as an 11 year old I did not consider that I was "educating myself" - I wanted to listen, I wanted to read about the music, but I would have described it as entertaining myself rather than educating myself. Now, though, I see that I was educating myself at the same time, in the Reithian manner. And I don't see any space in the riches currently available so easily and in such baffling abundance where another young me would be educated with such a light touch.

So, yes, to those who mourn the loss of speech radio about music, intelligent discussion about music, treating the music with respect (silence before and after). And regretting the intrusions of falsely enthusiastic presenters and trails that irritate so much that they are the main reason I no longer listen. If I see something listed that I really want to hear I will find it later on Sounds rather than listen live; but in reality that too is all about treating the music with respect, and I will more often go to my CDs now.

Superb post Roslynmuse.

For me it was the 1970’s R3 Alfred Brendel Beethoven sonata series that captured my attention. I recorded them on a Grundig cassette recorder and listened to them obsessively. Based on that I wrote an end of term exam essay on the sonatas which went down so well with the school music teacher he encouraged me to do music O level. Now a life long love of music and the piano which I still play, and also indeed a wallet - emptying addiction to live opera.
All pretty much thanks to R3 and I bet there are tens of thousands out there like me. (Maybe excluding the opera thing ).

[LMcD]

If I see something listed that I really want to hear I will find it later on Sounds rather than listen live; but in reality that too is all about treating the music with respect, and I will more often go to my CDs now.

I've decided to work my way again through my 4-CD Lyrita set of British Symphonies, beginning this evening with Grace Williams's 2nd. I shall then move on to the set of British String Concertos.

[Bella Kemp]

I've decided to work my way again through my 4-CD Lyrita set of British Symphonies, beginning this evening with Grace Williams's 2nd. I shall then move on to the set of British String Concertos.

I like that idea very much

[smittims]

I think Grace Williams' second symphony is the finest piece of music written by a woman.

[kernelbogey]

... the point being that I had caught the bug of listening and educating myself as far as I could based on what was available to me. .. I had started reading Gramophone and subscribed to the local record library so I was getting an education through several sources....

...What would I do if I was 11 years old now? Be presented with a bewildering array of music, but very little context for it. .... I would not learn from the programming what I learned in the mid 70s and early 80s. Similarly, I learned much from LP sleeves that is simply not there if one is streaming or surfing ...

I should add that as an 11 year old I did not consider that I was "educating myself" - I wanted to listen, I wanted to read about the music, but I would have described it as entertaining myself rather than educating myself. Now, though, I see that I was educating myself at the same time, in the Reithian manner. And I don't see any space in the riches currently available so easily and in such baffling abundance where another young me would be educated with such a light touch.

So, yes, to those who mourn the loss of speech radio about music, intelligent discussion about music, treating the music with respect (silence before and after). And regretting the intrusions of falsely enthusiastic presenters and trails that irritate so much that they are the main reason I no longer listen.....

There's so much that I can identify with here, and I thank you, Roslynmuse, for expressing it so well. My parallel experience was aged about fourteen in the late 1950s, with an older brother, who had just gone to Oxford, and also on a path of discovery, as a mentor.

[french frank]

So, yes, to those who mourn the loss of speech radio about music, intelligent discussion about music, treating the music with respect (silence before and after). And regretting the intrusions of falsely enthusiastic presenters and trails that irritate so much that they are the main reason I no longer listen. If I see something listed that I really want to hear I will find it later on Sounds rather than listen live; but in reality that too is all about treating the music with respect, and I will more often go to my CDs now.

That expresses, much more eloquently - and convincingly - the general points I've been making, but with the valuable insights of an 11-year-old, whereas I didn't begin my 'journey' until my late thirties. Ten years later Radio 3 began failing in its job of educating me and I remain musically barely 'literate'. So many thanks for that post.

[smittims]

That reminds me, so they say, of an illustrated lecture by Denis Matthews, circa 1973, on Brahms' piano music. Needless to say he played all the illustrations himself. This sparked off a lifelong love of these pieces for me. It was Radio 3 at its best,, engaging, friendly, yet neither elitist nor plebeian. He managed to talk aboiut technicalities without frightening the uninformed . No other broadcasting channel would do this today: Radio 3 could.

[AuntDaisy]

That reminds me, so they say, of an illustrated lecture by Denis Matthews, circa 1973, on Brahms' piano music. Needless to say he played all the illustrations himself. This sparked off a lifelong love of these pieces for me. It was Radio 3 at its best,, engaging, friendly, yet neither elitist nor plebeian. He managed to talk aboiut technicalities without frightening the uninformed . No other broadcasting channel would do this today: Radio 3 could.

Could it be this? Bit early, I know, but it could have been repeated again.

INTERPRETATIONS ON RECORD
Sat 14th Aug 1965, 22:10, Third Programme (not Network 3 as Genome says)
A programme in which different interpretations on gramophone records are compared DENIS MATTHEWS talks about the interpretations of the Brahms Sonata in F minor. Op. 5, as recorded by CURZON, FISCHER, KEMPFF, SOLOMON, and others
† Second broadcast followed by an interlude at 10.55

[smittims]

Thansk, AuntDaisy, but no , it was a lecture before an audience (maybe in a studio) in 1973. All the same, I'd like to have heard that 1965 Interpretations on Record. It was a favourite programme for me, one of the reasons being that they concentrated on the musical aspects of a recording, regardless of the age of the sound, so you'd hear Weingartner being compared bar by bar with,say Giulini or Abbado. I shall always remember Michael Kennedy on Fantasia on a theme by ThomasTallis..

[Sir Velo]

I think Grace Williams' second symphony is the finest piece of music written by a woman.

Hmmm.. Hildegard, Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre, Barbara Strozzi, to name but a few? Not sure that claim stands up to serious scrutiny!

[smittims]

Well, let's scrutinise it, shall we, seriously or otherwise?

. I was clearly expressing a personal preference. I would certainly rank that symphony alongside any by a contemporary male composer; to my ears it transcends the limits that women's music (with one or two exceptions) always seems to me to have . The three you mention, for instance, are surely competent cmposers but no more than 'general practitioners' of the conventions of their time.

As I read your post, it seems to me to suggest that quality in music can be measured and fixed in an equvalent way to ,say , quality in the strength of a girder or the durability of a fabric. I've never known this to be the case. But I'd be interested to hear your nomination (and anyone else's ) for 'the finest piece of music written by a woman' and your reasons for that opinion. To get the ball rolling, I'd say Clara Schumann's piano trio is a good start .

[Nick Armstrong]

I think Grace Williams' second symphony is the finest piece of music written by a woman.

Hmmm.. Hildegard, Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre, Barbara Strozzi, to name but a few? Not sure that claim stands up to serious scrutiny!

Ah that weasel word “fine”…. “finest”, “very fine”, “fine wine”, “fine dining”… My hackles rise whenever it’s used in this sense, like an exclusive badge of connoisseurship

[smittims]

Well, I for one didn't intend it as an exclusive badge of connoisseurship. I just meant 'good' whatever 'good 'means . I might have said 'great' but I've become suspicious of that word and its use, maybe in the same way that you seem to me to suspect the use of 'fine'. I wonder if people who use it think about what it means .

We had a great time in Torremolinos. Evereyone got smashed.

At my school we protested against having to wear school uniform. Everyone skived off lessons. It was great.

Tamla Motown is obviously the greatest development in twentieth century music.

Need I go on? No; I needn't have started .