Sean says he was sacked

[LMcD]

That wasn't the point. It was that if he was offered a Sunday slot the number of possibilities (excluding PP and JRR) were small.

There are two ways of thinking about this: as an exercise in worker-management relations BBC practice is and always has been terrible. It trades on its reputation and the fact that many people want to work for the BBC and that gives management the upper hand which they misuse (that's my analysis, by the way, not a factual account of the situation). The other point, though, is that an employee on (a) fixed term contract(s) with their employer, once they reach normal retirement age, can't expect to be offered successive contracts for as long as the employee wants to go on working.

It was probably hoped - or indeed assumed - that he would turn down any Sunday slot. I always suspected that Sean has more backbone than Alan Partridge!

[Ein Heldenleben]

That wasn't the point. It was that if he was offered a Sunday slot the number of possibilities (excluding PP and JRR) were small.

There are two ways of thinking about this: as an exercise in worker-management relations BBC practice is and always has been terrible. It trades on its reputation and the fact that many people want to work for the BBC and that gives management the upper hand which they misuse (that's my analysis, by the way, not a factual account of the situation). The other point, though, is that an employee on (a) fixed term contract(s) with their employer, once they reach normal retirement age, can't expect to be offered successive contracts for as long as the employee wants to go on working.

I don’t think you’re right . Management practice in the BBC is not “terrible.” I worked there on and off there for forty years as producer, manager and later freelance and, talking to my many friends in the public and private sector it’s no better or worse than many - there are however many differences between managing in the BBC and other large organisations. As objective measures the BBC loses very few days to strike action, doesn’t lose many employment tribunals and has low staff turnover though staff survey results are often average.

These are some features of the BBC that not every large organisation faces ..

1. The vast number of different roles and job descriptions. I think an analysis showed there were over 500 different jobs in the BBC. Some of them like music balancing are very highly specialised.

2. at the same time there is a lot of job confusion and role blurring . Very often people don’t know exactly what their job is. That’s been further confused by multi skilling and very vague job descriptions.

3.Constant year on year cuts, Don’t laugh but I think the BBC doesn’t have enough managers - it’s light particularly at the crucial editor and exec producer level - and that’s why they have editorial problems .

4.Constant media scrutiny that no other large organisation experiences which makes managers very timid.

5, The many different types of employee contract which has led to all the problems over presenters falling under IR35 as a consequence of

6. Inconsistent and sometimes erroneous HR advice . That is a big problem.

I personally dont think Sean should go but very very few people in the media still work at 77 - there aren’t many left at 57 to be honest . Once you are over 50 you’re pretty much in the firing line and by 55 you usually get a tap on the shoulder and a generous offer.
.By the way in law there is no “normal “retirement age any more .
When I joined you had to retire from the BBC at 60 if staff - now there are people working into their late sixties sometimes taking their BBC pension at the same time, I personally think that’s wrong particularly when so many of the youngsters are now freelance with no proper pension at all . It’s also is quite common in Universities and sixth form colleges I’m told .

[gradus]

Its the sheer stupidity of treating SR in this way when an amicable solution seems to have been available by exercising a little patience.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Its the sheer stupidity of treating SR in this way when an amicable solution seems to have been available by exercising a little patience.

What would you have suggested - ?swapping a daily two hour live show for a nebulous Sunday programme is very definitely a downgrade .

[french frank]

I don’t think you’re right . Management practice in the BBC is not “terrible.” I worked there on and off there for forty years as producer, manager and later freelance and, talking to my many friends in the public and private sector it’s no better or worse than many.

I was thinking particularly of "frontline" staff - on-air broadcasters. There have been many cases of women being paid less, of too few ethnic minority staff in senior roles, of people's contracts not being renewed - at the whim of controllers/directors: since they have the power to hire and fire I don't think it's inaccurate to refer to them as 'the BBC'.

By the way in law there is no “normal “retirement age any more .

I was referring to pensionable age rather than the age at which individuals chose - or were forced - to retire. "The State Pension age for men and women will now increase to 67 between 2026 and 2028" [government website).

[Ein Heldenleben]

I was thinking particularly of "frontline" staff - on-air broadcasters. There have been many cases of women being paid less, of too few ethnic minority staff in senior roles, of people's contracts not being renewed - at the whim of controllers/directors: since they have the power to hire and fire I don't think it's inaccurate to refer to them as 'the BBC'.

I was referring to pensionable age rather than the age at which individuals chose - or were forced - to retire. "The State Pension age for men and women will now increase to 67 between 2026 and 2028" [government website).

Yep presenters can get treated badly but it’s a very competitive cut throat business with youngsters always after your job . Like acting , music , and sport that is the nature of the beast. No one has a god-given right to a presenting gig. The full story of male v female presenter wages in the BBC has never really emerged but it’s not what the press might lead you to believe. Sadly I can’t go into more detail than that . The reason that some presenters earn more than others might just be that some are better than others or present programmes with much higher viewing figures. Or they’ve had very tough agents who’ve negotiated ridiculous deals - some of which are obvious just from look8mg at the published salaries .

[gradus]

What would you have suggested - ?swapping a daily two hour live show for a nebulous Sunday programme is very definitely a downgrade .

Keep him in post for an agreed period as he has said he only intended to continue for a year or two, he already shares presentation so I imagine a sensitive intelligent manager would have seen the obvious solution and adopted it instead of blundering ahead.

[antongould]

I don’t think you’re right . Management practice in the BBC is not “terrible.” I worked there on and off there for forty years as producer, manager and later freelance and, talking to my many friends in the public and private sector it’s no better or worse than many - there are however many differences between managing in the BBC and other large organisations. As objective measures the BBC loses very few days to strike action, doesn’t lose many employment tribunals and has low staff turnover though staff survey results are often average.

These are some features of the BBC that not every large organisation faces ..

1. The vast number of different roles and job descriptions. I think an analysis showed there were over 500 different jobs in the BBC. Some of them like music balancing are very highly specialised.

2. at the same time there is a lot of job confusion and role blurring . Very often people don’t know exactly what their job is. That’s been further confused by multi skilling and very vague job descriptions.

3.Constant year on year cuts, Don’t laugh but I think the BBC doesn’t have enough managers - it’s light particularly at the crucial editor and exec producer level - and that’s why they have editorial problems .

4.Constant media scrutiny that no other large organisation experiences which makes managers very timid.

5, The many different types of employee contract which has led to all the problems over presenters falling under IR35 as a consequence of

6. Inconsistent and sometimes erroneous HR advice . That is a big problem.

I personally dont think Sean should go but very very few people in the media still work at 77 - there aren’t many left at 57 to be honest . Once you are over 50 you’re pretty much in the firing line and by 55 you usually get a tap on the shoulder and a generous offer.
.By the way in law there is no “normal “retirement age any more .
When I joined you had to retire from the BBC at 60 if staff - now there are people working into their late sixties sometimes taking their BBC pension at the same time, I personally think that’s wrong particularly when so many of the youngsters are now freelance with no proper pension at all . It’s also is quite common in Universities and sixth form colleges I’m told .

Excellent summary IMVVHO - does the BBC suffer to any degree with the modern day plague of , “Give me your watch and I will tell you the time” - consultants … ???

[Ein Heldenleben]

Excellent summary IMVVHO - does the BBC suffer to any degree with the modern day plague of , “Give me your watch and I will tell you the time” - consultants … ???

I don’t know about now but under John Birt yes , less so under Greg Dyke, more so with Mark . Thompson , then less so with Tony Hall when on the money for these was running out, Some were ok some not so ok . Mackinsey did some damage , Deloitte I was quite impressed by,
It’s such a huge super tanker it’s very difficult to make change particularly when there are so many political ramifications esp inthe Nations, There are plenty of people who’d love to axe all the orchestras bar one or make them freelance but that’s completely politically impossible . Ditto with Gaelic TV , S4C and a lot of Nations and Regions programming.

What has made a big difference are the 30 percent cuts over the last ten years. Masked by the success of the streamers is a huge decline UK made and focussed programming. That’s also true of ITV, C4 , and C5 . The schedules look really thin these days.

[ucanseetheend]

He had long enough . Amazing how these folk get 20,30,40 years with a stable well paid job with a state broadcaster and when their contract isn't renewed they whine.Happened with Ken Bruce. These folk who work at BBC seem to think they have a divine right for a life job.

[oddoneout]

He had long enough . Amazing how these folk get 20,30,40 years with a stable well paid job with a state broadcaster and when their contract isn't renewed they whine.Happened with Ken Bruce. These folk who work at BBC seem to think they have a divine right for a life job.

It isn't necessarily the fact of the dismissal but the manner of its implementation. As I understand things Sean Rafferty was likely to retire, and as his contract finished in March it would have been reasonable to expect that that would be a suitable point to call it a day. To be dismissed before that without it seems much if any discussion or consideration that might be considered due after so many decades of service, does not do the BBC any favours. It comes down to civilised personnel management - something that appears to have been ditched(not just at the BBC) now as unnecessary, possibly even seen as undesirable.
IMO it isn't

These folk who work at BBC seem to think they have a divine right for a life job.

so much as thinking - with justification in cases like SR - that a certain amount of appreciation of service, basic courtesy, is due in the handling of such matters as ending of contracts of a long service employee. Someone working outside the BBC, faced with the same circumstances, would hardly be likely to react positively either.

[Ein Heldenleben]

He had long enough . Amazing how these folk get 20,30,40 years with a stable well paid job with a state broadcaster and when their contract isn't renewed they whine.Happened with Ken Bruce. These folk who work at BBC seem to think they have a divine right for a life job.

OOO has written an excellent response on Sean’s particular circumstances but although there’s a glimmer of truth In what you say the “job for life “ went out of the window years ago. There’s a huge freelance element in the BBC who live from contract from contract, sometimes these last 9 months with a 3 month gap to ensure you don’t get employment rights (something the new Govt is legislating about I think.)People in their fifties and forties often get a tap on the shoulder , get made redundant to be replaced with a cheaper junior. The shelf life of the average network presenter is maybe ten to fifteen years then it’s the world of corporates and getting a gig where you can . It’s a very tough business .
Finally the BBC is not a “state “ broadcaster . It’s licensed by Royal Charter and regulated by OFCOM. Unlike Some European countries where there is a state broadcaster government ministers play no editorial or supervisory part in output. That said there’s a lot of editorial pressure applied to the BBC largely because it’s the main source of news in the UK. That same pressure is also applied to Sky and ITN but less so as they don’t have the audience.

[french frank]

Finally the BBC is not a “state “ broadcaster . It’s licensed by Royal Charter and regulated by OFCOM. Unlike Some European countries where there is a state broadcaster government ministers play no editorial or supervisory part in output.

I agree with what has been said about SR - BBC controllers aren't squeamish when it comes to sacking employees who don't fit their plans. But on "state broadcasters" what you say is true-ish. Editorial control lies with the BBC but the state still controls the purse strings.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree with what has been said about SR - BBC controllers aren't squeamish when it comes to sacking employees who don't fit their plans. But on "state broadcasters" what you say is true-ish. Editorial control lies with the BBC but the state still controls the purse strings.

Yep and that’s the main flaw in the system - the exercise of political control through the licence fee settlement and the adding of extra demands with no or inadequate extra funding - e.g. the World Service (which used to be a foreign office direct grant ) , free licences for over 75’s (now partial ) , the rollout of DTV , S4C, the local democracy reporter scheme and the biggest flop of the lot : local TV. For which we have to thank Gordon Brown , George Osborne , and Jeremy Hunt amongst others. The consequences can be heard daily on Radio 3 where every last penny is being squeezed out of the system.

[ucanseetheend]

It's a state broadcaster in effect.Of course BBC happy with the new socialist gov ( who would have guessed) . It's going to give BBC it's big budgets and bigger licence fee rises . Thankfully not had a penny from me for 12 years