Classical Live is changing its tune

[LMcD]

But this highlights the issue with the refreshed version of what had already become a tiresome affair. Afternoon Concert often contained(complete!) pieces I might have wanted to listen to, but without an accurate schedule(complete playlist plus times), trying to locate them wasn't easy. The guesswork could be reduced a little sometimes by reference to the 3pm slot, but even that has gone now. Even if I had catch-up I doubt I would want to spend time trying to find a particular item, especially with the distraction of undisclosed items suddenly appearing in the playlist.
I haven't listened to a whole afternoon's broadcast since the start of the new regime; occasionally I listen to some of what comes after the Wigmore recital, but not the whole lot,and a couple of times I have turned on "on spec", but turned off after a while. Not knowing what is being played(unless I go across the room and fiddle with the controls on the black box to find the "playing now" function - which doesn't always work anyway) or how long it might last means that if I really can't stick with something I just turn it off rather than waste effort playing guessing games about how long to stay muted.
At least this wasn't a sudden change, in the way the loss of the lunchtime concert has been, as I had been listening less and less to the afternoon output anyway.

Same here!

[smittims]

Sorry if this is a disappointing reply , but, since you did ask for views, I don't like Mark Simpson's clarinet playing, which never sounds quite in tune to me, and has a rather harsh tone, nor the music he writes, in which I've been unable to find any value.

I know the Finzi Bagatelles quite well,as I used to play them (as did many student clarinettists in days gone by!) . The recording I most enjoyed is by Emma Johnson on ASV. It's on You Tube, except the fourth movement, which curiously is with orchestra. The fifth is a video with John Lenehan. I was interested to see her hold the instriument almost vertically. I was taught to hold it out, almost like a trumpet.

Emma Johnson also recorded Finzi's Concerto, though here I prefer John Denman's original recordig on Lyrita, with Vernon Handley.

[richardfinegold]

What was its original claim? (Yes, I haven’t been paying attention )

I was about to comment on a related point so your new thread is handy: I just noticed that the programme blurb promises “specially recorded music”… and was wondering what on earth that meant. Specially… as opposed to accidentally recorded?

Perhaps it means recorded just for R3 - i.e. broadcast nowhere else? I hardly think that’s always true these days.

All sounds like mildly irritating & meaningless promotional flim-flam to me

Probably people are parsing the ad blurbs for to much significance. The promotional people have to write something (or perhaps they have been replaced by AI). Heaven fofend they just tell you the music, performers, and date/venue

[smittims]

Well, we've suspected the existence of an auto-adjective generator. Every piece of music has to be desribed by one adjective only . So Rachamninov's second concerto is 'soulful', and so on. I'm waiting for it to go haywire one day and announce Mahler's 'cheeky' ninth symphony and Chabrier's 'soul-searching' Espana.

[edashtav]

But this highlights the issue with the refreshed version of what had already become a tiresome affair. Afternoon Concert often contained(complete!) pieces I might have wanted to listen to, but without an accurate schedule(complete playlist plus times), trying to locate them wasn't easy. The guesswork could be reduced a little sometimes by reference to the 3pm slot, but even that has gone now. Even if I had catch-up I doubt I would want to spend time trying to find a particular item, especially with the distraction of undisclosed items suddenly appearing in the playlist.
I haven't listened to a whole afternoon's broadcast since the start of the new regime; occasionally I listen to some of what comes after the Wigmore recital, but not the whole lot,and a couple of times I have turned on "on spec", but turned off after a while. Not knowing what is being played(unless I go across the room and fiddle with the controls on the black box to find the "playing now" function - which doesn't always work anyway) or how long it might last means that if I really can't stick with something I just turn it off rather than waste effort playing guessing games about how long to stay muted.
At least this wasn't a sudden change, in the way the loss of the lunchtime concert has been, as I had been listening less and less to the afternoon output anyway.

Classical Live may be tuned in to this Forum! I'm washing up and since 2pm we have enjoyed three complete works:
Vivaldi E minor Concerto for 4 violins RV 550
Henri Tomasi Trumpet Triptyque ( a jolly rarity)
Tchaikovsky Fantasy 'Francesca da Rimini' op32

AFTER 3pm
Elizabeth A. promises the WHOLE of Berlioz's symphony 'Harold on Italy'.

Radio 3 is ON MESSAGE : OUR MESSAGE!

KEEP IT UP, FF AND HER BOARDY MATES!

[edashtav]

Sorry if this is a disappointing reply , but, since you did ask for views, I don't like Mark Simpson's clarinet playing, which never sounds quite in tune to me, and has a rather harsh tone, nor the music he writes, in which I've been unable to find any value.

I know the Finzi Bagatelles quite well,as I used to play them (as did many student clarinettists in days gone by!) . The recording I most enjoyed is by Emma Johnson on ASV. It's on You Tube, except the fourth movement, which curiously is with orchestra. The fifth is a video with John Lenehan. I was interested to see her hold the instriument almost vertically. I was taught to hold it out, almost like a trumpet.

Emma Johnson also recorded Finzi's Concerto, though here I prefer John Denman's original recordig on Lyrita, with Vernon Handley.

Fascinating reply, contrarian smittims!

We must differ over Mark Simpson's qualitities as a player and composer, although I acknowledge that his works do include abrasive passages. No rough sandpaper, say goodbye to smooth passages.

I must catch up with Emma's Finzi on YouTube. I have heard her in Gerald's concerfo but must make an effort to tackle your recommendation.

Keep it up smiittims, this forum's grit that encourages pearls of wisdom.:irony3:

[LMcD]

Well, we've suspected the existence of an auto-adjective generator. Every piece of music has to be desribed by one adjective only . So Rachamninov's second concerto is 'soulful', and so on. I'm waiting for it to go haywire one day and announce Mahler's 'cheeky' ninth symphony and Chabrier's 'soul-searching' Espana.

Not to mention Satie's 'epic' Gnossiennes and Chopin's 'monumental' Minute Waltz.

[oddoneout]

Classical Live may be tuned in to this Forum! I'm washing up and since 2pm we have enjoyed three complete works:
Vivaldi E minor Concerto for 4 violins RV 550
Henri Tomasi Trumpet Triptyque ( a jolly rarity)
Tchaikovsky Fantasy 'Francesca da Rimini' op32

AFTER 3pm
Elizabeth A. promises the WHOLE of Berlioz's symphony 'Harold on Italy'.

Radio 3 is ON MESSAGE : OUR MESSAGE!

KEEP IT UP, FF AND HER BOARDY MATES!

Sorry, I have to disagree there. Playing complete works is only part of the battle. The afternoon schedule, even in its previous misnamed Afternoon Concert guise managed to play complete works in among the filleted and serialised ones.
The difficulty is still that the schedules do not enable a listener to choose the pieces that are wanted as the list isn't complete(10 works played, only 5 listed before the 3pm slot today) and it isn't a concert, where there might be some reason to listen for an hour as the pieces would likely have some coherence and relationship to each other.
I don't know if the return of the 3pm big work slot is going to remain, but as set out in the schedules the impression is that the afternoon finishes with that, as nothing is indicated for the remaining time until CotW.
It's still basically a chat'n'bits format, but with longer and/or complete music items, and I just can't be bothered to sit through it in the hopes of something turning up to make the mess worth the effort.
This has become not ein land ohne musik, aber ein haus ohne musik, and it's not a happy place in that respect.

[edashtav]

Sorry, I have to disagree there. Playing complete works is only part of the battle. [...]

I was saluting progress in one battle: the move towards complete works.

I think that is progress and worthy of celebration. We cannot expect a volte-face from a determined set of foes saturated in group think.

Of course , we need your wise counsel, oddoneout, to maintain that success in battle is neither winning a campaign nor victory in war.

[smittims]

But surely, what we have long complained about is Radio 3's move away from complete works.

[oddoneout]

But surely, what we have long complained about is Radio 3's move away from complete works.

Indeed, but in (possibly) addressing one afternoon output issue another has been made worse as far as I'm concerned. If the deconstruction of whole works has been ditched then good - but if the schedules don't list the complete programme, or the timings of the works that are listed, then playing of whole works isn't progress unless one listens to the whole afternoon or, as I imagine is the expectation and assumption, on catch-up, then that doesn't achieve much. Switching on "on spec" isn't necessarily any better than listening to the morning schedules - without the playlist and timings the chances of hitting part-works are high, and knowing that the whole work is being broadcast but coming in partway through something I would have wanted to hear(in full)adds insult to injury. So I hardly switch on at all now, and certainly not for the whole afternoon. If the reappearance of the 3pm slot remains then, depending on what's in the slot, I might switch on; staying on after the slot is less certain given that the schedules currently don't admit to any music between the end of the featured work and CotW, although if other activities permit then CotW might be a reason to delay switch off.

[edashtav]

Indeed, but in (possibly) addressing one afternoon output issue another has been made worse as far as I'm concerned. If the deconstruction of whole works has been ditched then good - but if the schedules don't list the complete programme, or the timings of the works that are listed, then playing of whole works isn't progress unless one listens to the whole afternoon or, as I imagine is the expectation and assumption, on catch-up, then that doesn't achieve much. Switching on "on spec" isn't necessarily any better than listening to the morning schedules - without the playlist and timings the chances of hitting part-works are high, and knowing that the whole work is being broadcast but coming in partway through something I would have wanted to hear(in full)adds insult to injury. So I hardly switch on at all now, and certainly not for the whole afternoon. If the reappearance of the 3pm slot remains then, depending on what's in the slot, I might switch on; staying on after the slot is less certain given that the schedules currently don't admit to any music between the end of the featured work and CotW, although if other activities permit then CotW might be a reason to delay switch off.

Contrary to expectation, I'm in full and enthusiastic agreement, oddoneout
let me take an example
AFTER LAST EVENING'S CONCERT, Delius's early violin and piano sonata op posth.was broadcast in a rare performance by a distinguished duo. Manna to Delians and British Music fiends. Did they miss it? Probably! What a shame what a unnecessary loss of an informed audience.
it can catch up.on SOUNDS but will have to search..

[french frank]

If one is on the subject of the disputed D/D (aka 'making simpler and less intellectually demanding in order to appeal to a wider audience'), I think it's fair to point that turning on the radio at 6.30 because one needs to turn on at 6.30 in order to catch the train/bus to work in time requires no intellectual effort. Turning on at c. 9.15 in order to listen to a specific work does require the mediation of intellect. The reasons why one would make an effort to listen to the broadcast of that specific work will depend on the individual (know the composer, don't know the composer; don't know the piece; always a favourite of mine; haven't heard that in ages; never heard that particular interpretation &c - one could think of other reasons). Something is going on in the brain connected with the music - unlike switching on at 6.30 or 9.00 in order to hear Petroc/Breakfast or Ian/Essential Classics or to fill the time between getting up, eating breakfast and coping with the working day in whatever way.

Don't bother about what's being played - just turn on and listen. If that's you, that's fine, but it ain't very demanding.

[smittims]

Quite so. I switch on Through the Night at 0400 every day without knowing what will be playing, and Classical Live at about 1515 when I start the dinner, expecting (usually these days) a 30-40 minute 19th century orchestral piece followed by adverts and surprise short pieces, pleasant or unpleasant discoveries, leading into Composer oft he Week, which I switch off simply because dinner is over. It's rare that I switch on to catch a specific work or performance I want to hear.

We're told that Essential Classics has 'thousands of new listeners'. I wonder if any reasearch has been done to establish if they'e switching on because they love all the music played, or if they are in search of 'calming' , or if Jools Holland has told them how wonderful classical music is .

[LMcD]

If one is on the subject of the disputed D/D (aka 'making simpler and less intellectually demanding in order to appeal to a wider audience'), I think it's fair to point that turning on the radio at 6.30 because one needs to turn on at 6.30 in order to catch the train/bus to work in time requires no intellectual effort. Turning on at c. 9.15 in order to listen to a specific work does require the mediation of intellect. The reasons why one would make an effort to listen to the broadcast of that specific work will depend on the individual (know the composer, don't know the composer; don't know the piece; always a favourite of mine; haven't heard that in ages; never heard that particular interpretation &c - one could think of other reasons). Something is going on in the brain connected with the music - unlike switching on at 6.30 or 9.00 in order to hear Petroc/Breakfast or Ian/Essential Classics or to fill the time between getting up, eating breakfast and coping with the working day in whatever way.

Don't bother about what's being played - just turn on and listen. If that's you, that's fine, but it ain't very demanding.

That works for me up until about 10.00 a.m.(excluding Saturdays ) and then again from about 10.00 p.m. (especially Sunday to Thursday) In between these times, depending how busy I am, I might well be ready for something more substantial, and it's easier to play a CD or watch something that I've recorded on my TV than hunt through BBC Radio 3 Schedules or Sounds for something in the mess that mid-morning to late afternoon programmes have become. If I can't sleep, I might 'dip into' TTN.