Classical Live is changing its tune

[Roger Webb]

I haven't read anything biographical about Cras, except what I've learned from valuable Timpani liner notes - including the fact that his daughter married Tansman.

I do give hearty thanks to Timpani very regularly, as a goldmine for off-piste French composers, invariably in well-presented CD editions with excellent booklets. Primarily for Cras, as you say, but also Pierné (including the complete and completely marvellous Cydalise et le Chèvre-pied), Ropartz, Emmanuel... the label's reach was staggering. I was very sad when they went bust in 2018.

The Lyrita of French Music!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not completely indifferent to the prevailing 'values' of our contemporary culture....I lay awake at night wondering what they are, and whether those elements of culture I value will prevail! It's truly shocking what has happened to opera over a very short time span.

No nor me ..they seem to be prevailing at the moment sadly.

[LMcD]

This thread needs some sort of recognition for its combination of range , reconditeness and complete indifference to the prevailing values of our contemporary culture .

If this Paradise Garden dispute ends up in court, will a majority verdict be acceptable?

[Master Jacques]

If this Paradise Garden dispute ends up in court, will a majority verdict be acceptable?

I think the Inn and its immoral garden would be closed down, following a storm of anger on social media and a public enquiry over the tragic deaths of Sali and Vreli. "Lessons have been learned", said the Mayor of Sedwyla.

The Dark Fiddler has sent back his CBE.

[Ein Heldenleben]

If this Paradise Garden dispute ends up in court, will a majority verdict be acceptable?

As a plea of mitigation I’ve learnt a lot!

[smittims]

Thanks for your further thoughts, Master Jaques, particularly about the music, but concernig Delius' idea of the Paradise Garden I still think you're 'interpreting' rather than being 'scrupulously accurate' (your phrase, let's not forget) , which would surely involve an unequivocal mention of the sale of sex and drinks. But never mind. We still have what Lyndon Jenkins calls 'this indestructible piece' , capable of bearing many diverse but equally valid interpretations, Beecham's 1927 Columbia and 1948 BBC broadcast two of them. Others I like to return to are Anthony Collins (Decca) and Myer Fredman (Lyrita).

[Roger Webb]

Over the years of visiting the sights connected with Delius - particularly those in and around Paris - and reading just about all the literature available on the subject, I've built up a mental picture of the composer and his activities. I'm pretty sure he would put 'local colour' into his works - he obviously used his experiences in America in his operas Koanga, and to an extent in The Magic Fountain. Wouldn't he do the same in A Village Romeo and Juliet?

It's those experiences whilst a young man (and not so young...he still made trips to the capital to visit 'mistresses' after he had moved to Grez sur Loing and was married!) that he would have used to fill-out details in his operas - take a look at the detail in Margot la Rouge for example.

Delius lived several parallel lives, like a lot of men in 19th century Paris: Gentleman - when he moved to Paris first he lived with his Uncle who was a bit of a dandy...he lived just behind the Ritz in Rue Cambon - seen in news reports when Lady Diana Spencer got into the car that killed her that fateful evening. He had a permanent box at the opera and moved in the upper echelon of society.

After a couple of summers in the suburbs Delius moved to his own appartement in the Montrouge area of Montparnasse - two streets from where I stay in Paris! This area of the 14th was, and is, a mix of artisans and artists - far removed it seems from the world of his Uncles circles.
He moved in the artistic milieu of Gauguin, Strindberg and Munch, the throbbing artistic hub of Montparnasse being William Molard's salon.

The other, darker side of Delius's life in Paris was his liking for lowlife....and we're talking pretty low! He frequented brothels regularly - later when Beecham visited him he offered to take him to see his favourite brothel where he assured Beecham they had the prettiest chinese girls.
The prostitution trade was carried out in some of the dance halls, particularly over in the 19th arr. Called Bal-Musette, there were three types, one called Bal des families, run by Auvernats, and quite respectable, ones run by Italians called a Bal musette Populaires and where the lower classes went to actually just dance! The third type was the Bal de Barriére known in slang as a 'Guinche', the most popular for those looking for a little 'extra excitement'....and most frequented by the upper classes!

I'm sure Delius had in mind for his 'inn' at the Paradise Garden something like the 'Guinche' type....interesting is Petr Weigl's film of A Village Romeo and Juliet, made to Charles Mackarras's ORF soundtrack, but with actors - except Thomas Hampson as the Dark Fiddler. Weigl gives us all the elements of the typical Bal de Barriére including some nude artists models and prostitutes and several androgynous men, suggesting 'extra excitement' for all tastes. It's not a good film overall, but has it's moments......it'll have to do as I'm unlikely ever to see one in the opera house!

[smittims]

Thanks, Roger, fascinating detail. I can add only that I believe the inspiration for Village Romeo came from a desire (not uncommon in late 19th-century composers) to write a trilogy of operas; in his case he wanted to feature three disposessed peoples: the red Indians,the negroes and the gypsies (I hope none of those terms has become politcally-incorrect since I last saw them in print). The Magic Fountain and Koanga clealy deal with the first two, but by the time he wrote Village Romeo the emphaisis had shifted to the plight of the innocent lovers, though of course the Dark Fiddler is literally 'disposessed', of his land, which makes him a key character.

It's well-known that Delius died of syphilis, whose prognosis suggests that he contracted it during his Paris years.

[vinteuil]

... three disposessed peoples: the red Indians,the negroes and the gypsies (I hope none of those terms has become politcally-incorrect since I last saw them in print)...

... all three, actually. But we'll let you off this time

A repeat offence will lead to a re-education camp

.

[Serial_Apologist]

... all three, actually. But we'll let you off this time

A repeat offence will lead to a re-education camp

.

Ah yes - but I had to check the third! - ROMA, which I prefer to "travelling people", many of whom will not be of Roma descent. Interestingly (?) we have a Gipsy Hill and a Gipsy Road near where I live - note the spelling - the first with the railway station which is on it likewise spelt.

Are we allowed nowadays to use the term "tinker", by the way?

[Roger Webb]

I can add only that I believe the inspiration for Village Romeo came from a desire (not uncommon in late 19th-century composers) to write a trilogy of operas; in his case he wanted to feature three disposessed peoples: the red Indians,the negroes and the gypsies.........

Yes I've read the trilogy of Native American, African American and Romani (✓✓✓) theory, and agree with it....and think the general idea of loss came from Delius's encounter - like many young musicians of the time - with Wagner's operas, particularly Tristan (rising four note motif is so Tristanesque)

Of course Irmelin is straight fairy tale...faintly reminiscent of Humperdinck, and the late Fennimore and Gerda on the surface a simple tale of love among artists, is moving in the expressionist direction (perhaps Berg could have set this Jacobsen libretto to good effect!!) - for me this opera contains much fascinating music....as do the later works, eg. An Arabesque, Songs of Farewell and Idyll.

[Roger Webb]

...... we have a Gipsy Hill and a Gipsy Road near where I live...........

My home town of Lewes in Sussex on 5th November a few years ago burnt an effigy of a gypsy instead of the usual one of the Pope....I'm not sure if this shows a softening of attitudes to catholicism or a more xenophobic attitude to outsiders considered 'undesirable'!

[Serial_Apologist]

I have a story to tell. Where as a child I lived in Essex, travelling people used frequently to camp up in neighbouring woods. One day during my summer holiday there was a ring on the front door bell. A woman from the camp was going door-to-door, selling flowers. On spotting a landscape painting in our hallway, she asked "Is that Ireland?" "Yes I believe so", Mum answered. "I thought so", the woman said, and then asked, "Is that your son?" Mum answered yes. "He's a fine lad - he'll never have to work hard for his living! Oh", she then remembered, "I have to tell you; you'll be going to a wedding, very soon".

An invitation to a wedding arrived by post, just four days later! As to whether or not the first part of what the woman predicted turned out true, I leave it for others to decide!

[Roger Webb]

Are we allowed nowadays to use the term "tinker", by the way?

I would think it ok as a verb 'I'm going to tinker with my vintage Aston Martin', or 'I wish that Sam Jackson wouldn't tinker so with Radio 3'.

But not perhaps as an agent noun refering to an itinerant pot mender.

[LMcD]

I would think it ok as a verb 'I'm going to tinker with my vintage Aston Martin', or 'I wish that Sam Jackson wouldn't tinker so with Radio 3'.

But not perhaps as an agent noun refering to an itinerant pot mender.

A mischievous youngster can be (or at least used to be) called a little tinker.
I'm not quite sure how Lovejoy's sidekick Tinker Dill got his nickname.