Classical Live is changing its tune

[french frank]

That works for me up until about 10.00 a.m.(excluding Saturdays ) and then again from about 10.00 p.m. (especially Sunday to Thursday) In between these times, depending how busy I am, I might well be ready for something more substantial, and it's easier to play a CD or watch something that I've recorded on my TV than hunt through BBC Radio 3 Schedules or Sounds for something in the mess that mid-morning to late afternoon programmes have become. If I can't sleep, I might 'dip into' TTN.

I'm trying to understand this. You have one set of people who want to tune in selectively and need to be told in advance what will be broadcast so that they can listen to what interests them and avoid what doesn't interest them. On the other hand, you have another set of people who will tune it at 6.30 or 7 because that's the time they always tune in, and they'll listen to whatever is on without being told what will be played. They turn off when they have to in order to do something else.

But if Radio 3 catered for the first group, and played longer pieces, how would that not satisfy both groups? What exactly is it that the second group would complain about?

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm trying to understand this. You have one set of people who want to tune in selectively and need to be told in advance what will be broadcast so that they can listen to what interests them and avoid what doesn't interest them. On the other hand, you have another set of people who will tune it at 6.30 or 7 because that's the time they always tune in, and they'll listen to whatever is on without being told what will be played. They turn off when they have to in order to do something else.

But if Radio 3 catered for the first group, and played longer pieces, how would that not satisfy both groups? What exactly is it that the second group would complain about?

Being "forced" to quit before a definitively conclusive dominant-tonic cadential dénouement? "Needing to go out meant I missed the happy ending you get with shorter pieces, and was left hanging"..

[french frank]

Being "forced" to quit before a definitively conclusive dominant-tonic cadential dénouement? "Needing to go out meant I missed the happy ending you get with shorter pieces, and was left hanging"..

That might be the case, though I would find it a bit weird if people let the BBC/R3 decide at what point they should turn off the radio. Would thousands of Breakfast listeners switch off at the same time, coinciding with the finish of Gershwin's Walking the Dog? Are people listening to Breakfast that intently that they register when each piece ends? I don't know - that's why I ask.

[LMcD]

I'm trying to understand this. You have one set of people who want to tune in selectively and need to be told in advance what will be broadcast so that they can listen to what interests them and avoid what doesn't interest them. On the other hand, you have another set of people who will tune it at 6.30 or 7 because that's the time they always tune in, and they'll listen to whatever is on without being told what will be played. They turn off when they have to in order to do something else.

But if Radio 3 catered for the first group, and played longer pieces, how would that not satisfy both groups? What exactly is it that the second group would complain about?

Possibly a failure to recognize that people's musical tastes and listening requirements can vary over the course of a day (and night)?

[oddoneout]

I'm trying to understand this. You have one set of people who want to tune in selectively and need to be told in advance what will be broadcast so that they can listen to what interests them and avoid what doesn't interest them. On the other hand, you have another set of people who will tune it at 6.30 or 7 because that's the time they always tune in, and they'll listen to whatever is on without being told what will be played. They turn off when they have to in order to do something else.

But if Radio 3 catered for the first group, and played longer pieces, how would that not satisfy both groups? What exactly is it that the second group would complain about?

The two groups are not mutually exclusive though - as a Venn diagram might illustrate. I would be one of those in the orange peel segment in the middle. I like having Breakfast on for several reasons, one of which being that short pieces,( which of course does not have to be synonymous with incomplete pieces, but that's another matter) fit better with the morning routine, I find the variety of music is pretty good(unusual items/composers are not infrequent) , and Petroc often has interesting news or information items to share, but I don't want to spend the rest of the day listening to chat'n'bits. I do want to listen to complete works - but in order to do so need to know a)that they are on and, b) when. Currently that is only possible with the evening concert and the Monday Wigmore Hall recital.
So longer works first thing wouldn't achieve much for me if I wasn't able to hear them complete, which would be frustrating, and I imagine I'm not alone in that. I don't understand the rationale of moving to longer pieces(which doesn't fit with the dip in and out model I would have thought) but not making it easy to either find them or choose to listen to them complete as they are broadcast. Perhaps if I wait long enough someone will have a bright idea - assemble a selection of items in a suitable format and with some connection/relationship between them, and listed in the schedules before broadcasting in a defined time slot. - AKA a concert... Spare time to be filled with random items, some listed in the schedules beforehand, as now.

[oddoneout]

That might be the case, though I would find it a bit weird if people let the BBC/R3 decide at what point they should turn off the radio. Would thousands of Breakfast listeners switch off at the same time, coinciding with the finish of Gershwin's Walking the Dog? Are people listening to Breakfast that intently that they register when each piece ends? I don't know - that's why I ask.

I find I register when a piece has finished even if I'm not listening attentively, but I assume that is to do with my brain being inclined to pick up music - even if I would rather it didn't in some cases...

[LMcD]

The two groups are not mutually exclusive though - as a Venn diagram might illustrate. I would be one of those in the orange peel segment in the middle. I like having Breakfast on for several reasons, one of which being that short pieces,( which of course does not have to be synonymous with incomplete pieces, but that's another matter) fit better with the morning routine, I find the variety of music is pretty good(unusual items/composers are not infrequent) , and Petroc often has interesting news or information items to share, but I don't want to spend the rest of the day listening to chat'n'bits. I do want to listen to complete works - but in order to do so need to know a)that they are on and, b) when. Currently that is only possible with the evening concert and the Monday Wigmore Hall recital.
So longer works first thing wouldn't achieve much for me if I wasn't able to hear them complete, which would be frustrating, and I imagine I'm not alone in that. I don't understand the rationale of moving to longer pieces(which doesn't fit with the dip in and out model I would have thought) but not making it easy to either find them or choose to listen to them complete as they are broadcast. Perhaps if I wait long enough someone will have a bright idea - assemble a selection of items in a suitable format and with some connection/relationship between them, and listed in the schedules before broadcasting in a defined time slot. - AKA a concert... Spare time to be filled with random items, some listed in the schedules beforehand, as now.

I couldn't have put it better, guvnor!

[hmvman]

I find I register when a piece has finished even if I'm not listening attentively, but I assume that is to do with my brain being inclined to pick up music - even if I would rather it didn't in some cases...

Same here. I have often lingered in the bathroom to wait for a piece of music to finish before turning off the radio. Similarly, I have sat in the car on arrival at my destination waiting for a piece to finish - much to frustration of companions!

[LMcD]

Quite so. I switch on Through the Night at 0400 every day without knowing what will be playing, and Classical Live at about 1515 when I start the dinner, expecting (usually these days) a 30-40 minute 19th century orchestral piece followed by adverts and surprise short pieces, pleasant or unpleasant discoveries, leading into Composer oft he Week, which I switch off simply because dinner is over. It's rare that I switch on to catch a specific work or performance I want to hear.

We're told that Essential Classics has 'thousands of new listeners'. I wonder if any reasearch has been done to establish if they'e switching on because they love all the music played, or if they are in search of 'calming' , or if Jools Holland has told them how wonderful classical music is .

... as long as the 'thousands of new listeners' aren't offset by the departure of thousands of now-former listeners.

[oddoneout]

... as long as the 'thousands of new listeners' aren't offset by the departure of thousands of now-former listeners.

I(and others) have voiced this concern in previous posts. We shall never know though; it is unlikely the BBC is inclined to do a profit and loss balance sheet - all that matters is new listeners increasing. Whether they stay, how much they actually listen to(however one defines listening) is also of relatively little interest I suspect. It is after all the way business is run these days - grab as many newbies as possible, regardless of the effect on customer service and existing customers, never mind if they don't stay plenty more mugs out there.

[LMcD]

I(and others) have voiced this concern in previous posts. We shall never know though; it is unlikely the BBC is inclined to do a profit and loss balance sheet - all that matters is new listeners increasing. Whether they stay, how much they actually listen to(however one defines listening) is also of relatively little interest I suspect. It is after all the way business is run these days - grab as many newbies as possible, regardless of the effect on customer service and existing customers, never mind if they don't stayplenty more mugs out there.

Perhaps the idea is to make sure that they attract enough 'new' listeners before the 'old' ones switch off in disgust/despair or shuffle off their mortal coils.

[oddoneout]

Perhaps the idea is to make sure that they attract enough 'new' listeners before the 'old' ones switch off in disgust/despair or shuffle off their mortal coils.

Which could make for an interesting listener graph. Big increase while the two audiences co-exist, then, depending choice of scenario, a decline. The impressive one(for all the wrong reasons) would be the "new " audience losing interest at the same time as a rapid disappearance(choice/despair/ natural causes/combination of) of the remnants of the original audience.

[french frank]

Perhaps the idea is to make sure that they attract enough 'new' listeners before the 'old' ones switch off in disgust/despair or shuffle off their mortal coils.

It suggests (and I think it's true) that the BBC is more focused on demographics, how many people are listening to R3 and how much it costs than on what it broadcasts. Yet Radio 3 has always been defined by "what it broadcasts". If fewer and fewer people are interested in "what R3 broadcasts" R3 no longer "serves" an audience and the solution is to change what it broadcasts.

There is at the BBC little interest in or recognition of artistic achievement with an inherent, lasting value. Any concept of leading the masses towards higher things is paternalistic and encourages elitism.

[Cockney Sparrow]

It suggests (and I think it's true) that the BBC is more focused on demographics, how many people are listening to R3 and how much it costs than on what it broadcasts. Yet Radio 3 has always been defined by "what it broadcasts". If fewer and fewer people are interested in "what R3 broadcasts" R3 no longer "serves" an audience and the solution is to change what it broadcasts.

There is at the BBC little interest in or recognition of artistic achievement with an inherent, lasting value. Any concept of leading the masses towards higher things is paternalistic and encourages elitism.

Mm, yes. Same pursuit of values as Arts Council England. It seriously crossed my mind to encourage my offspring - with some skills in relevant languages- to emigrate after university to the EU.
I suppose Germany, France, Netherlands certainly - where there does seem to be a continuing regard for culture and quality, and investment in civilised surroundings and public services.

I didn't, and now regret that - after Brexit, and the outlook for our country after 14 benighted years........

[vinteuil]

It seriously crossed my mind to encourage my offspring - with some skills in relevant languages- to emigrate after university to the EU. I suppose Germany, France, Netherlands certainly - where there does seem to be a continuing regard for culture and quality, and investment in civilised surroundings and public services. I didn't, and now regret that - after Brexit, and the outlook for our country after 14 benighted years........

... o, that resonates! - I missed a chance or two to settle permanently in France in the 1990s : things have moved on; too late now, and I'm happy where I am - but lordy! I still have regrets... (and of course, without Brexit, wd still have the possibility of living both here and there . )

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