Classical Live is changing its tune

[Roger Webb]

And listening only through Sounds wouldn't bother me if I could actually do it!

What equipment have you? I might be able to help as I've tried many methods over the period since BBC stopped its Shoutcast route.

[oddoneout]

What equipment have you? I might be able to help as I've tried many methods over the period since BBC stopped its Shoutcast route.

I don't have equipment as such, just the PC. After overcoming the initial battle to register for Sounds what I've ended up with is evidence(if I press my ear up against the PC) that the sound is there but no way of getting it to audible levels - the volume control I use when needed(default is off) has no effect, and headphones are similarly ineffective. Son, who gave me the PC lump in the first place, is puzzled. It might be a Beeb "we do not support X Y Z software" issue, as I'm using Windows 7, but it's odd that I can listen to All of Bach, BR-Klassik and now YLE* - and in fact have had to turn the volume down on the latter...

* thank you for the list btw, it saved me having to trawl through old posts to find what others had mentioned/recommended. I've written out the list and put it up on the noticeboard above my desk, and will work my way through it.

[Roger Webb]

I don't have equipment as such, just the PC. After overcoming the initial battle to register for Sounds what I've ended up with is evidence(if I press my ear up against the PC) that the sound is there but no way of getting it to audible levels - the volume control I use when needed(default is off) has no effect, and headphones are similarly ineffective. Son, who gave me the PC lump in the first place, is puzzled. It might be a Beeb "we do not support X Y Z software" issue, as I'm using Windows 7, but it's odd that I can listen to All of Bach, BR-Klassik and now YLE* - and in fact have had to turn the volume down on the latter...

* thank you for the list btw, it saved me having to trawl through old posts to find what others had mentioned/recommended. I've written out the list and put it up on the noticeboard above my desk, and will work my way through it.

BBC streams (including Sounds) are quieter than just about anything....and Radio 3 the 'quietest' of all the BBC stations (with the possible exception of 'Unwind'!!), but they do broadcast a high dynamic range which tends to make the 'average' level seem lower than others.

The other stations I mentioned have websites that you can just just access on your PC like BR- Klassik. My German is poor - although I spent a year working there.....my Finnish non-existent, but I like the no-nonsense intros - a relief from the mindless gushing in other parts!

[Master Jacques]

[...] Eventyr, which contains a surprise that I don't think any other composer has used. (Let's not spoil it for those who haven't heard it!) [...]

Except to say that, if you're looking for another composer who uses that surprise, let's not forget Great Albert (Ketèlbey), who asks for exactly this effect in at least two of his tone poems, In a Persian Market and 'Appy 'Ampstead. In Eventyr it certainly makes the hairs stand on the back of the neck through, as we're in spooky troll territory.

[oddoneout]

I happened to turn the radio on at the beginning of Breakfast this morning as I was up early, and encountered a BBC self-promo of Classical Live that claims it is 'the programme that celebrates live music'. Even by the standards of the BBC definition of 'live' that's some dubious claim - particularly as the 'celebration' includes cutting the Wigmore Hall live concerts to one hour per week. Lot of heavy lifting that single hour is doing now...

[LMcD]

I happened to turn the radio on at the beginning of Breakfast this morning as I was up early, and encountered a BBC self-promo of Classical Live that claims it is 'the programme that celebrates live music'. Even by the standards of the BBC definition of 'live' that's some dubious claim - particularly as the 'celebration' includes cutting the Wigmore Hall live concerts to one hour per week. Lot of heavy lifting that single hour is doing now...

As I mentioned elsewhere, 'live' can mean either (a) a recording, or (b) a live relay, of a live (concert or studio) performance. Just about everything on Through The Night is covered by (b).

[oddoneout]

As I mentioned elsewhere, 'live' can mean either (a) a recording, or (b) a live relay, of a live (concert or studio) performance. Just about everything on Through The Night is covered by (b).

Is it? I thought it was recordings of broadcast performances from members of the EBU, but differs from the R3 daytime output in that the sequence does not use commercial recordings. What you describe in (b) is what I would think of as a proper, as it happens, live performance.

[Pulcinella]

Is it? I thought it was recordings of broadcast performances from members of the EBU, but differs from the R3 daytime output in that the sequence does not use commercial recordings. What you describe in (b) is what I would think of as a proper, as it happens, live performance.

But we're not listening to it as it happens, are we?

[oddoneout]

But we're not listening to it as it happens, are we?

No, which is why I am confused by your (b) which, as I said, to me is live as in real time, whereas TTN is recordings of earlier live performances.
It's obvious why R3 would want to blur the definition of live music, but it isn't helpful, and I wish there was more clarity instead of sticking with the 'Through the Looking Glass' approach. However that is I suppose a vain hope since in today's virtual world no-one seems to be fussed about facts and reality.

[Ein Heldenleben]

As I mentioned elsewhere, 'live' can mean either (a) a recording, or (b) a live relay, of a live (concert or studio) performance. Just about everything on Through The Night is covered by (b).

Well in BBC TV “live “ means only one thing - transmitted as it’s happening with a possible up 5 sec delay for technical (satellite delay) or editorial (swearing ) reasons . Saying live when you’re not on TV is an absolute no-no - deceiving the public. You can’t say “you’re joining me live “ unless you are saying it live on air.
For some reason Radio is allowed to say live when what they mean is recorded “ as live” i.e, no multiple retakes and edit. . Even that’s a misnomer as those“ as live” recordings are “tidied up” with removal of tuning between movements and pauses etc.
On the other hand I would estimate that on R3 about 90 per cent of BBC recorded in studio stuff is effectively “as live.” There isn’t the time or money for endless takes and day long edits that are the norm in the classical music recording world . Like the piano recording I overheard at a rural studio last summer where the pianist must have played the same four bars 20 times. An awful lot of classical discs these days are fairly fake I reckon.

[french frank]

For some reason Radio is allowed to say live when what they mean is recorded “ as live” i.e, no multiple retakes and edit.

And this is surely why TTN counts as 'live'? The original was broadcast live or was at least an 'as live' recording - a one-take recording with a live ('as live'? ) audience. Studio recordings without an audience could seldom (not to be too dogmatic) be described as 'live'.

[mopsus]

For some reason Radio is allowed to say live when what they mean is recorded “ as live” i.e, no multiple retakes and edit. . Even that’s a misnomer as those“ as live” recordings are “tidied up” with removal of tuning between movements and pauses etc.

In about 2004 I sang on a recorded broadcast of Radio 4's Sunday morning service that was 'as live', a few days ahead of going out on air. The producer admitted this was a deception, but pointed out it would save us a very early Sunday morning start. I imagine that if there had been some major event between recording and broadcast that the radio audience would expect to have been acknowledged in the prayers, a reference to it would have been edited in.

[LMcD]

Is it? I thought it was recordings of broadcast performances from members of the EBU, but differs from the R3 daytime output in that the sequence does not use commercial recordings. What you describe in (b) is what I would think of as a proper, as it happens, live performance.

Whoops!
You're quite right of course, I meant (b).
Classical Live doesn't use any commercial recordings as far as I'm aware.
TTN features a number of performances from North America, Australia and South Korea, but I don't know whether these are provided via, or courtesy of, the EBU.
Like oddoneout, I stream via my PC, and Sounds sounds fine.
Annoyingly, Radio Times sometimes boldly promotes something as LIVE (white-on-black rectangle) when it isn't really, last week's' FNiMN being a case in point.

[oddoneout]

Whoops!
You're quite right of course, I meant (b).
Classical Live doesn't use any commercial recordings as far as I'm aware.
TTN features a number of performances from North America, Australia and South Korea, but I don't know whether these are provided via, or courtesy of, the EBU.
Like oddoneout, I stream via my PC, and Sounds sounds fine.
Annoyingly, Radio Times sometimes boldly promotes something as LIVE (white-on-black rectangle) when it isn't really, last week's' FNiMN being a case in point.

I should have been more specific about 'daytime output'. I think you are correct about Classical Live not using commercial recordings, and that's why( I assume) they make such a song and dance about 'specially recorded for the BBC' and use it to justify the 'live' bit of the programme name, but the morning output and some of In Tune etc use commercial material.
The EBU members are linked to the EU, but it also has Associate members who are outside the EU, which is how material from non-European countries can appear in TTN.

https://www.ebu.ch/about/members?type=associate

That's how the EBU day of music broadcast before Christmas can include the likes of Canada.

[Ein Heldenleben]

In about 2004 I sang on a recorded broadcast of Radio 4's Sunday morning service that was 'as live', a few days ahead of going out on air. The producer admitted this was a deception, but pointed out it would save us a very early Sunday morning start. I imagine that if there had been some major event between recording and broadcast that the radio audience would expect to have been acknowledged in the prayers, a reference to it would have been edited in.

Strictly speaking it would only be a “deception “ if the continuity announcer said something like “we now go over live to St Paul’s etc “ or worse if the Rev said “ you join us live.” You can say “ we go over to “ but not “we go over live.“
That bit of pointless pedantry is just a preamble to this Peter Cook anecdote . He was a notorious telephone prankster . One favourite was to ring up Television Centre on a Sunday night and complain that Songs Of Praise clearly wasn’t live . After finally wringing out of reception the admission that it was pre recorded he’d say triumphantly “I knew it.” When asked how he knew it he’d say “ Cos I’ve just seen the vicar down the Dog and Duck with his hand up the barmaid’s skirt.”
Never worked on Songs Of Praise - a pity as I’ve heard it was one of the “livelier” Outside Broadcast gigs . “Work Hard ,Pray Hard , Party Hard.”